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Author Topic: The Bullies and the Bullied
NR
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Now, before I share my thoughts, I want to make a one thing clear:

I DO NOT, IN ANY WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM CONDONE THE ACTS COMMITTED BY SCHOOL SHOOTERS.

With that out of the way, I would like to say a few things and I would also like to hear the thoughts of others regarding this topic.

Sadly, school shootings have almost become common place in this day and age. Everyone is asking, "How do we prevent another Columbine?", "How do we prevent another VA Tech?".
The answers range from stricter gun control laws to tougher standards and psychological evaluations for students.

Granted, these may be valid solutions. I am not here to argue that. I started this thread to talk about something else that can be done to possibly prevent these atrocities from happening again, and it requires nothing but changing how you treat others.

One thing I have noticed regarding school shootings, is that they all seem to have one thing in common. The Bullies and the Bullied.
Most incidents are the acts of those who are picked on getting revenge against those who picked on them, and possibly those who stood by and did nothing while these acts were committed.

Probably most of us at some point in our experiences at school have either been a victim of a bully or been a bully ourselves. If you are one of the few who haven't, then you probably knew, or know someone who fits one of those two categories.

As someone who was bullied and teased constantly from middle school until high school because I was skinny... I can personally attest to the extreme psychological trauma and life changing effects of being constantly bullied, day in and day out.

It has been a long time since I have been in school but I still remember the way it felt, as though it had happened yesterday.

The embarrassment. Being singled out and made fun of for something you had little to no control over.

The sadness. Wondering why people disliked you so much for something that meant nothing of who you are as a human being.

The hopelessness. Feeling like the whole world was against you and you had no one to turn to, like there was nothing left in this life for you.

Then the anger. The thirst for revenge, the desire to punish those whom you did nothing to that have made you feel this way, and those who stood idly by and watched.

Through the help of family, a close friend, and a couple others who stepped in at times when I was being bullied, I was able to cope with being bullied, and eventually moved beyond letting a bullies actions make me feel less than human. I was able to continue my life and not worry about what those who were shallow thought and said, and focus on my life and those around me whom I cared about, and that cared about me.

However, different people deal with the stresses of being bullied in different ways, and unfortunately, some make the horrible decision to not deal with it by killing themselves and or others, as we have seen with the horrible atrocities at Columbine and VA Tech.

Again, I am not trying justify these murderous actions. No matter how you are bullied, it does not justify the taking of the lives of others. I am living proof of how the actions of bullies can be overcome without resorting to revenge.

What I am trying to say is that there is something very simple that I think many can do that could help prevent the horrible atrocities that are occurring at our nations schools.

If you are a bully... Think twice before you bully. Not only are you hurting someone in a way that can scar them for life, you could be hurting someone who is not strong enough spiritually or psychologically to deal with it, and will lash out in a way that could cost lives.

If you are one of the bullied... Think twice before you act on your emotions. Don't stoop to the bullies level. Revenge is not the solution. Don't give up on yourself. Your life is worthwhile, and suicide is not the answer. Popularity is overrated. Don't care what the shallow masses think, you don't want friends like that anyway, they are not truely your friends. You will find those who care about you for who you are. It might be hard and take some time, but it will be worth it. Live, and let no-one take away the joy of living from you.

If you are neither of the above but know someone who is, or even just have witness someone being bullied... Step in, speak up, say something. Sometimes the difference between a life saved and a life lost can be as simple as being the one voice who speaks up in someone else's darkest hour.

NR.

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rimasco
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NR you manifesto doesnt hold water

It was learned that the Columbine shooters were not bullied at all...one of them were actually concidered pretty popular

In the case of VT, The clown wasnt "teased" or "picked on" at all either. He just chose to isolate himself for whatever underlying reason and he suffered from serious delusions of paranoia....did you here his rants? If anything this kid might have been tramatized by something that happened at home, leaving him to trust NOBODY...the last part was JMO

Maybe thats one of the reasons why his parents went into hiding

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"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication"

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NR
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Va. Tech shooter was laughed at

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070419/ap_on_re_us/virginia_tech_shooting

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One is never completely useless. One can always serve as a bad example.

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rimasco
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Read the article he isolated himself to a point where people never heard him speak...granted some idiots took it upon themselves to poke fun at him when they finally did hear him but, look at it this way...he coulda took the "sane" route and learned how to assert himself in other ways. He chose the wrong path. Being bullied is part of life at some point everybody experiences it. Wheter its at a job or on a line...whatever. This kid probably had no coping skills and would have later in life shot up an office building for being repermanded or having a prank played on him.....

And what about the columbine guys??? they werent picked on or bullied AT ALL. As it turned out they were both very upset after being arrested for vandalizing a car months prior..which they think might have been their break point ..should the cop have hugged them before taking them in?

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glassman
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i think we should add prozac to all drinking water,then everybody would be happy [Razz]

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The Bigfoot
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The Foot was bullied in middle school.

(sorry for the munchie third person reference...he ruined that for me)

Anyway, the only relief I got was when the one kid who was lower on the totem pole than me (the guy with the weird poofy hair) was around.

All stemmed from one bully but rumors were he had a knife and would pull it out anytime he was losing a fight...so I never pushed it and lived with the humiliation.

It does mess with your head. It took me til my senior year before I realised I was bigger than those I was taking crap from and put my foot down.

Still, that's school man. In that testosterone environment there will always be a pecking order and those on the bottom are gonna have to find ways to cope. I like to think I am a better man because of it.

Be good to each other is great and a stong lesson hopefully to be followed (especially in your adult life) but I don't think we'll ever break the bully thing out of schools. Too instinctual.

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No longer eligible for government service due to lack of tax issues.

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rimasco
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You know what NR...I cant imagine what you went through...I was neither well let me rephrase that, my older brother abused the piss out of me growning up...I guess I have thick skin cause my other brother didnt take it so well. Actually I guess it wasnt so bad either because my friends were subject to the same beatings if we came accross the older guys. It was more of a "toughen up" class then anything. There was this one game they played called "poison ball" and if you seen one of them with baseball...RUN!! My friends eventually stopped ringing my bell for fear of getting a pot of water thrown on them from the second floor or shot at with a bebe gun....all and all nobody held any ill will towards my brother and his friends...at least I think so

Funny thing..one of my friends did go on to be an awesome pitcher in college...maybe he was looking to get a rematch going at some POISON-BALL

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"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication"

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bdgee
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I have to disagree, most strongly.

"It was learned that the Columbine shooters were not bullied at all...one of them were actually concidered pretty popular"

According to the infoprmation I have been able to find, that contains two false claims.

http://www.jaacap.com/pt/re/jaacap/abstract.00004583-200106000-00018.htm;jsessio nid=GnGSv2pw9p9G8JhvpxFhGd6pDs9g0vWGY8KvZNCpn2FjScBJTbnk!3145886!-949856145!8091 !-1

Only a cursory look into the scholarly literature will show that the correspondence of mass murderers with having been bullied is more that a mild relationship. It happens way more than half the time.

And then there are the issues that escape being lumped in the category of "bullying" but actually amount to the same thing, like never being allowed to play in the recess soft ball game or always being the butt of jokes because your clothes are hand me downs or whatever else kids will do to make themselves look good at the expense of others (and too often their parents and teachers approve of). Those cause phychological alterations too.

Any measure of whether of not someone feels bullied (and therefore develops a psychological abnormality) is NOT valid if that measure is from the viewpoint of the bully or even from a disinterested but predetermined view.

I'm sorry that NR had to suffer the "shame" of being not of standard issued and design from his peers because he was a skinny kid. I wonder if he had an ignorant but well meaning teacher suggest in front of the class that he should go and get checked for a tape worm, (with the added embarrassing "understanding" that, if your parents can't afford a regular doctor they can take you to the County Healt Department to get it done)? I Had that happen and I remember how deeply it hurt and how it hurt so much more and so long after because it supported all the insults and crap I had to put up with from my class mates. (But, what can a 6 foot tall 112 pound growing boy in the 6th grade expect from a product of a teachers college? Respect?)

I loudly second NR's motion!

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Upside
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quote:
Originally posted by The Bigfoot:
...and put my foot down.

The Big one?
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rimasco
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Anybody in school that did get bullied ended up doing steroids....bullied no more.....

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"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication"

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NR
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quote:
Originally posted by bdgee:


.....

I'm sorry that NR had to suffer the "shame" of being not of standard issued and design from his peers because he was a skinny kid. I wonder if he had an ignorant but well meaning teacher suggest in front of the class that he should go and get checked for a tape worm, (with the added embarrassing "understanding" that, if your parents can't afford a regular doctor they can take you to the County Health Department to get it done)? I Had that happen and I remember how deeply it hurt and how it hurt so much more and so long after because it supported all the insults and crap I had to put up with from my class mates. (But, what can a 6 foot tall 112 pound growing boy in the 6th grade expect from a product of a teachers college? Respect?)

.....


LOL, that happened to you too!?!

...Kinda ironic how I can laugh about it now, considering how I felt when it happened....

Maybe we had the same teacher? Either that or schools instruct their teachers to recommend that all skinny kids get checked for tape worms.

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Ramius
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Hey Natural...

I mostly agree with you and I too had hard time of it when I was in school.

I was 18 when I graduated from high school, was 4'11'' tall and weighed 98 pounds(yes, I'm a guy). I hated high school. I lived in a "rich" area, but my family wasn't rich at all. The other kids were the have's, and I was a have not...a little runt of one too.

But you're right, people handle things differently, some people just aren't strong enough, or don't have a support system.

I learned a lot of hard lessons that just made me work harder. I haven't finished college, and work mostly with people with masters degrees. Now I'm 5'10" and in shape 150lbs. At my 10 year reunion only 1 person recognized me.

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jordanreed
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i was bullied..so i told my older brother..who was in the rice street gang.(bpm'.)...bullied no more..after that i was repected...

But i have to say,my brother also kicked the sh!t out of me every day..

he was the bully..

what did i learn??..to always let people know who my brother is..he's saved my butt more than once

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jordan

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jordanreed
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[Cool]

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jordan

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IWISHIHAD
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It is not just restricted to schools and growing up. It happens every day in the workplace, just not physical in nature.
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rimasco
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Youre right Jord thinkin back now I always got a pass where my friends werent so lucky.....

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bdgee
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quote:
Originally posted by NaturalResources:
quote:
Originally posted by bdgee:


.....

I'm sorry that NR had to suffer the "shame" of being not of standard issued and design from his peers because he was a skinny kid. I wonder if he had an ignorant but well meaning teacher suggest in front of the class that he should go and get checked for a tape worm, (with the added embarrassing "understanding" that, if your parents can't afford a regular doctor they can take you to the County Health Department to get it done)? I Had that happen and I remember how deeply it hurt and how it hurt so much more and so long after because it supported all the insults and crap I had to put up with from my class mates. (But, what can a 6 foot tall 112 pound growing boy in the 6th grade expect from a product of a teachers college? Respect?)

.....


LOL, that happened to you too!?!

...Kinda ironic how I can laugh about it now, considering how I felt when it happened....

Maybe we had the same teacher? Either that or schools instruct their teachers to recommend that all skinny kids get checked for tape worms.

Even today, the urging to perform such an act in elementary classrooms is a standard part of the elementary education curriculum in colleges.

It is there in their text books, just like the explanaion that the "purpose" of mathematics is to keep the students busy and quiet when the teacher has "important" work to do and as a means of punisment for kids that don't sit quietly like good little girls.

I once agreed to substitute over a couple of weeks for a collegue who had to be out of town in a graduate class of mathematics for elementary school teachers and scoffed when they told me those two. The next day they brough three standard text books for education classes in which both were set out with emphisis.

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NR
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Bdgee,

quote:

"And then there are the issues that escape being lumped in the category of "bullying" but actually amount to the same thing, like never being allowed to play in the recess soft ball game or always being the butt of jokes because your clothes are hand me downs or whatever else kids will do to make themselves look good at the expense of others (and too often their parents and teachers approve of). Those cause phychological alterations too."

Thank you for mentioning that. IMO these types of things are an integral part of being "bullied" that I neglected to make clear in my original post. Being bullied for me was hardly ever being physically abused by classmates, though that did happen from time to time.

-----

Ramius,

quote:
But you're right, people handle things differently, some people just aren't strong enough, or don't have a support system.
I was trying to get that point across, but I think you phrased it in a much better way than I did. I was fortunate enough to a "support system" to help me through the rough times. They are many who do not. IMO, those who do, become stronger individuals. Those who do not are more likely to fold under pressure. Sometimes, one person can be that "support system" for someone who has no one, which can make a world of difference, which is why I felt I needed to post my thoughts on this issue.

-----

Jordan,

You were lucky to have an older brother. Me? I was the older brother....

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rimasco
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thinking about it...i did give some of the teachers a hard time... usually through dry jokes and just basically being a clown

Hey bd maybee this explains our love for one another?

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"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication"

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bdgee
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Anything that, intentionally or not, tends to humiliate a youngster is a thing that should be avoided....period!

Everyone has some trait that can add to the world, but if a person has been trained to be careful or get laughed at, it can't help him or us because he can't let it out.

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NR
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quote:
Even today, the urging to perform such an act in elementary classrooms is a standard part of the elementary education curriculum in colleges.

It is there in their text books, just like the explanaion that the "purpose" of mathematics is to keep the students busy and quiet when the teacher has "important" work to do and as a means of punisment for kids that don't sit quietly like good little girls.

I once agreed to substitute over a couple of weeks for a collegue who had to be out of town in a graduate class of mathematics for elementary school teachers and scoffed when they told me those two. The next day they brough three standard text books for education classes in which both were set out with emphisis.

Well maybe they need to add a line instructing the teachers to do so discretely, instead of in front of the entire class....

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One is never completely useless. One can always serve as a bad example.

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glassman
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this problem has been around as long as we have had classrooms:

Pink Floyd
Another Brick In The Wall

Daddy's home cross the Ocean.
Leaving just a memory.
The snapshot in the Family album.
Daddy what else did you leave for me?
Damn It! What did you leave behind for me?
All in all it was just a brick in the wall.
All in all it was all just bricks in the wall.

We don't need no education.
We don't need no thought control.
No dark sarcasm in the classroom.
Teacher leave the kids alone.
Hey, teacher leave the kids alone!
All in all it's just another brick in the wall.
All in all you're just another brick in the wall.

We don't need no education.
We don't need no thought control.
No dark sarcasm in the classroom.
Teachers leave those kids alone.

Hey, Teacher leave those kids alone!
All in all you're just another brick in the wall.
All in all you're just another brick in the wall.

crowd noise

I don't need no arms around me.
And I don't need no drugs to calm me.
I have seen the writing on the wall.
Don't think I'll need anything at all.
No, don't think I'll need anything at all.
All in all it was just bricks in the wall.
All in all it was just bricks in the wall.


from the Wall written by Roger Waters.

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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The Bigfoot
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quote:
Originally posted by Upside:
quote:
Originally posted by The Bigfoot:
...and put my foot down.

The Big one?
LOL

I knew someone would go there.

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No longer eligible for government service due to lack of tax issues.

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NR
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I have that album Glass. Thanks for posting the lyrics, that song is one of my favorites by Floyd, along with their song "Time".

I agree with Bigfoot's earlier comments. I'm not saying that the problem of bullies in the classroom will ever go away, nor trying to suggest that treating others better will guarantee a stop to school shootings.

I just know from personal experience what being bullied can do to you, and in light of recent events, thought that maybe sharing my thoughts and feelings on the issue might make a difference to someone somewhere.

Sometimes just knowing that you are not the only one that is going through, or has been through rough times can be enough to pull you back from the "edge".

Also, not to be forgotten,

Sometimes it takes tragedy before you realize the negative effect you've had on someone else by your actions, or lack there of....

The second of the two is something I hope that no one ever has to experience.

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IWISHIHAD
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Quote Natural Resources;

I was trying to get that point across, but I think you phrased it in a much better way than I did. I was fortunate enough to a "support system" to help me through the rough times. They are many who do not. IMO, those who do, become stronger individuals. Those who do not are more likely to fold under pressure. Sometimes, one person can be that "support system" for someone who has no one, which can make a world of difference, which is why I felt I needed to post my thoughts on this issue.
_________________________________________________

I feel bad that so many kids were constantly bullied as they grew up, after just reading a few of these posts it can be tramatic. I never experianced anything like this, maybe because of having an older brother and sister and i knew older friends that would not tolerate much of this. Maybe NaturalResources answered a question in his statement that i had always wondered about. About 8 years after high school, i ran into a fellow classmate in a bar, we were talking and out of the blue he said, i want to thank you for always being so nice to my younger brother, i took that as a big compliment, but never really understood why it might have been a big thing, i had no reason not to be nice to him. I had never thought of it till now, maybe many kids were not nice to him. I just learned growing up that being a bully was not the right thing to do and if friends of mine or me saw a extreme of this, we would step between it, especially if we knew for sure it was one sided.

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glassman
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i went to a quasi-military school for high school...

the hazing was (more or less) instittutionalised, merciless, and perpetual...

i can only say that i fought back on the spot every time no matter how bad the odds were, or how much more punishment i took for fighting back... soon? they looked for easier "prey"... i can't say i defended many of the others cuz i wasn't big enough..but i did object... and i never "passed it on" to the youngsters coming behind me... as a a matter of fact? i am proud to say that MY graduating class didn't haze at all (that i know of)

that's all we can do...

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IMAKEMONEY
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THATS ALL YOU GOT TO DO, GIVE IT RIGHT BACK AND THEY LEAVE YOU ALONE!glassman
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posted April 19, 2007 05:48 PM
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i went to a quasi-military school for high school...

the hazing was (more or less) instittutionalised, merciless, and perpetual...

i can only say that i fought back on the spot every time no matter how bad the odds were, or how much more punishment i took for fighting back... soon? they looked for easier "prey"... i can't say i defended many of the others cuz i wasn't big enough..but i did object... and i never "passed it on" to the youngsters coming behind me... as a a matter of fact? i am proud to say that MY graduating class didn't haze at all (that i know of)

that's all we can do...

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LIFE IS 10% HOW YOU MAKE IT AND 90% HOW YOU TAKE IT!

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rimasco
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THATS ALL GLASS!! When I was on the HS football team they bumped me up to varsity for the playoffs and they tryed to haze us few as well...at practice we ran a dummy O (2nd offense) against the starting D. The size disparity was a joke besides the fact they knew what plays we were running. I was only 5'6" 150lbs then. I ran my ass off every play if they called my number up the middle I just lowered my head and ran right into the wall which consisted of 270 lbs of "moose" he was an all city nose tackle. When all was said and done I had a bloody mess for a head....but later in the locker room moose came over to me laughed and shook my hand and told me "you got alotta heart".

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"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication"

Posts: 4005 | From: Shaolin | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
T e x
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ya, my class was the first to be freshmen in high school, instead of the kingpins at junior high...was pretty bad at first, but we kinda banded together with the sophs, who after all were also in *their* first year at high school. After enough seniors got the stuffin' knocked out of 'em, that chit ended...

Fun times, ending those "traditions"...

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Nashoba Holba Chepulechi
Adventures in microcapitalism...

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rimasco
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Antother time one of the other all-stars tryed to embarress my friend during a tackling drill. Funny part... he was our friend as well..OFF THE FIELD LOL.

Well when it was my turn...soon as he caught the ball I burried my head right in his chest and put him back on earth..

Its all coming back to me now. There were certain types that were only DlCKS around certain people....

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"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication"

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quote:
Originally posted by rimasco:
Antother time one of the other all-stars tryed to embarress my friend during a tackling drill. Funny part... he was our friend as well..OFF THE FIELD LOL.

Well when it was my turn...soon as he caught the ball I burried my head right in his chest and put him back on earth..

Its all coming back to me now. There were certain types that were only DlCKS around certain people....

lol, don't get me started...start thinking about that stuff, and the floodgates open...

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Nashoba Holba Chepulechi
Adventures in microcapitalism...

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Munchkin Man
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Greetings To All:

The Munchkin Man was bullied when he was a little Munchkin Boy and later on when he was a Munchkin Teen.

Later on the Munchkin Man got his revenge.

The Munchkin Man became a math teacher and became the hardest teacher in the school.

The Munchkin Man was the only teacher in his entire school who would refuse to pass a student whose final average was only 1 point away from passing.

The Munchkin Man used to love to take out his little red pen and mark things wrong with big red Xs.

One day a kid came to the Munchkin Man with a transfer sheet for another school.

The Munchkin Man was supposed to figure out his average and write it in on the sheet.

The Munchkin Man figured out his average.

It was a 1.

Only a 1.

Later that day, the guidance counselor tried to talk the Munchkin Man into giving him a 50 in order to give the kid a fighting chance to pass in his new school.

The Munchkin Man refused.

The 1 remained.

The Munchkin Man never gave partial credit.

None.

Either the answer was completely right or completely wrong.

You also had to show each and every single step in order to qualify for getting an answer completely right.

If your answer was supposed to have a dollar sign and you forgot it, the Munchkin Man would mark the answer completely wrong.

The Munchkin Man also took off points for sloppiness and failure to follow directions.

The Munchkin Man would take off a point if your equal signs were crooked.

The Munchkin Man would also take off points if your paper wasn't headed exactly right.

The types of kids who used to pick on the Munchkin Man were usually the types of kids who flunked.

That's how the Munchkin Man got them back.

But................

As hard as the Munchkin Man used to be........

The Munchkin Man was always fair.

This is how the Munchkin Man rechanneled all of his negative feelings from being bullied into a positive direction.

Good luck to all.

Best Wishes,

Munchkin Man

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glassman
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wow, sounds like you needed some  -

i bet you got asked to leave that job dintcha MM?

you are lucky you didn't get sued...

it was probably in a poor neighborhood where people can't afford lawyers huh?

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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Munchkin Man
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quote:
Originally posted by glassman:
i bet you got asked to leave that job dintcha MM?

you are lucky you didn't get sued...

it was probably in a poor neighborhood where people can't afford lawyers huh?

_____

The Munchkin Man had tenure.

You couldn't just ask the Munchkin Man to leave just because you didn't like the Munchkin Man.

The Munchkin Man got sued once.

The Munchkin Man got a good attorney and got the suit dismissed.

On the negative side, the Munchkin Man's car did get vandalized a few times.

The Munchkin Man finally retired on disability when his late onset of Third Person Communicative Disorder (TPCD) started to kick in.

The Munchkin Man also had OCD.

That stands for Obsessive Compulsive Disorder.

This may also help explain why the Munchkin Man was regarded as so "picky."

The Munchkin Man was also diagnosed with Type II Bipolar Disorder.

These extra diagnoses helped the Munchkin Man to get his disability claim approved because his TPCD was so relatively unknown at the time.

And it still is.

Best Wishes,

Munchkin Man

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T e x
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munchie...

no chit, that explains alot...

you don't "get tough" that way. On the street, you don't let bullies succeed. But with kids, as an adult? You wanna find ways to encourage success. Am I saying give football players an "A" when they deserve an "F"? No way... But the modus operandi you describe is too harsh, imo

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Nashoba Holba Chepulechi
Adventures in microcapitalism...

Posts: 21062 | From: Fort Worth | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
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