posted
What if the government never took the Constitution seriously? What if the same generation -- in some cases the same human beings -- that wrote in the First Amendment, "Congress shall make no law ... abridging the freedom of speech," also enacted the Alien and Sedition Acts, which made it a crime to criticize the government? What if the feds don't regard the Constitution as the Supreme Law of the Land?
What if the government regards the Constitution as merely a guideline to be referred to from time to time, or a myth to be foisted upon the voters, but not as a historic delegation of power that lawfully limits the federal government? What if Congress knows that most of what it regulates puts it outside the confines of the Constitution, but it does whatever it can get away with? What if the feds don't think that the Constitution was written to keep them off the people's backs?
What if there's no substantial difference between the two major political parties? What if the same political mentality that gave us the Patriot Act, with its federal agent-written search warrants that permit unconstitutional spying on us, also gave us ObamaCare, with its mandate to buy health insurance, even if we don't want or need it? What if both political parties love power more than freedom? What if both parties have used the Commerce Clause in the Constitution to stretch the power of the federal government far beyond its constitutionally ordained boundaries and well beyond the plain meaning of words?
What if both parties love war because the public is more docile during war and permits higher taxes and more federal theft of freedom from individuals and power from the states? What if none of these recent wars has made us freer or safer, but just poorer?
What if Congress bribed the states with cash in return for their enacting legislation that Congress likes, but cannot lawfully enact? What if Congress went to all states in the union and offered them cash to repave their interstate highways, if the states only lowered their speed limits? What if the states took that deal? What if the Supreme Court approved this bribery and then Congress did it again and again? What if this bribery were a way for Congress to get around the few constitutional limitations that Congress acknowledges?
What if Congress believes that it can spend tax dollars on anything it pleases and tie any strings it wants to that spending? What if Congress uses its taxing and spending power to regulate anything it wants to control, whether authorized by the Constitution or not? What if anyone other than members of Congress offered state legislatures cash in return for favorable legislation? What if Congress wrote laws that let it break laws that ordinary people would be prosecuted for breaking?
What if the Declaration of Independence says that the government derives its powers from the consent of the governed? What if the government claims to derive powers from some other source that it will not -- because it cannot -- name? What if we never gave the government the power to spy on us, to print worthless cash, to kill in our names, to force us to buy health insurance or to waste our money by telling us that exercise is good and sugar is bad?
What if we never gave the government the power to bribe the poor with welfare or the middle class with tax breaks or the rich with bailouts or the states with cash? What if we don't consent to what has become of the government? What if the Constitution has been tacitly amended by the consent of both political parties, whereby instead of ratifying amendments, all three branches of government merely look the other way when the government violates the Constitution? What if the president cannot constitutionally bomb whatever country he wants? What if the Congress cannot constitutionally exempt its members from the laws that govern the rest of us? What if the courts cannot constitutionally invent a right to kill babies in the womb?
What if the federal government is out of control, no matter which party controls it? What if there is only harmony on Capitol Hill when government is growing and personal liberty is shrinking? What if the presidential race this fall will not be between good and evil, between right and left, between free markets and central planning or even between constitutional government and Big Government; but only about how much bigger Big Government should get?
What if enough is enough? What do we do about it? What if it's too late?
posted
What if? is a question based in the past. It is also a leading question...suggesting the need of a yes or no answer that discourages the application of critical thinking to provide exception to circumstance.
Do you on the other hand is a personalization question regarding reflection and individual consideration. Such as: Do you have a problem with the free speech cages at the republican national convention? I do...and I've helped watch them.
Do you know what this quote sounds like? A Marxist manifesto. Encouraging the proletariat to revolt against the bourgeoisie. In other words...this is a militant socialist statement.
I am not surprised to see this posted. I am surprised to see you are the poster Seek. And no...I have not yet bothered to look up the author.
-------------------- No longer eligible for government service due to lack of tax issues. Posts: 5178 | From: Up North | Registered: Dec 2005
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posted
Given the title however perhaps that is your point??
-------------------- No longer eligible for government service due to lack of tax issues. Posts: 5178 | From: Up North | Registered: Dec 2005
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-------------------- It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so. Posts: 6949 | Registered: Apr 2004
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posted
it doesn't matter who wrote it SF... cult of personality dictates peopel to want to know so they can associate it with whatever agenda they beleive it should be.
i run into this in art sales all the time, most people literally do not like really good (new) art becuase it challenges them to accpet something new and unusual instead of being easily catalogued and stereotyped.
it's pretty much dead on.
the Founders said all men are created eqaul right? they said even more:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. —
and yet the 3/5th compromise was in the Constitution, and that clearly said that all men are white and the rest of humanity is NOT equal to them... the problem you have in htis "manifaseto" (?) is that the "The Government" is not really The Government. There is no entity called the government that you can go meet with and talk to. Obama iss the President, but he is not the The Government, SCOTUS and Congress? same thing.
Then you have the whole of the Civil Servie who are theo ones who implement the Governing, they are also a group of people mostly looking out for themselves. So, There is no "The Government" All of these people are gettting themsleves inot a position to line their own nest and all else is simply a charade or collateral damage to that goal.
The Govenrmnt is group of people who have power that is derived by the abiltiy to print money and borrow money at will...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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quote:I am not surprised to see this posted. I am surprised to see you are the poster Seek.
ROFL, I'm not sure exactly how to take that one, Big. I'll choose to take it in a positive manner.
I ran accross this and it struck a chord because of its ambiguous nature. Like Glass mentioned, it could easily be 'linked' to either 'side'. But in doing so, the actual situation it attempts to describe gets ignored and game goes on. If the items mentioned within it could be agreed upon by both sides to be undesireable, shouldn't it follow that there might actually be a 'middle ground' where we can stand together as a people and take our leaders to task together?
I've been reading alot over the last two years (in between my classes) and I can't say that it has helped my faith in the future of our country. This leads me to re-ask the final questions of this 'article'...
posted
What if suicide bombers existed in the 1780's? What if people had moved back then in mass transit vehicle systems? What if this had motivated changes such as the Patriot Act or universal healthcare into law in this time and age?
What if an early enacted Patriot Act could have prevented 9-11 and the attack on Pearl Harbor? What if the Civil War could have been averted or the German advances in 1914 and 1939 nipped in the bud?
What if an early enacted Obamacare could have prevented or mitigated the Cholera pandemics or the 1918 flu? What if cancer could already be beaten and the health industry showing clear links between diabetes and obesity, obesity and sugar intake?
What if both parties partake in war because they love this country and our democracy with the same fervor that sustains our troops half a world away where they must fight and attempt to befriend the same population at the same time?
What if the federal government had not attempted to ensure states carried near uniform laws and systems and a divide occurred in the south because of limited resources being needed elsewhere? What if that schism placed stress on the very fabric of our states philosophy and started tearing at the continuity of our nation?
What if this article is in the wrong precisely for the reason why it thinks it is in the right? What if the government does derive its powers from the governed as stated in the Declaration of Independence? What if it is the governed that want the government to give them more security, more money, to kill our enemies in our name, and to reduce the costs of healthcare and make access more available and while also raising funds for health care by adding taxes on unhealthy items we have labeled luxury such as alcohol, cigarettes, gambling, and yes....sugar.
What if we think the poor deserve more than a cold shoulder of indifference? What if the government infrastructure is the best and most reliable way to make sure as many of the poor as possible are taken care of as commanded by the christian God? What if, in times of great crisis, saving the systems of our nation is more important than making sure no one individual or group gains a percentage more than another in the process?
What if congress and the three branches of government aren't ignoring the constitution? What if they just know the processes enough to skip a step much like the senate skips the filibuster when they know a bill does not have a filibuster proof majority? What if the LACK of regulating a woman's womb actually led to a decrease in prenatal mortality because a well informed woman is her own best administrator?
What if the government isn't out of control? What if bigger government is only a reaction of a bigger national consciousness? What if community is being redefined thanks to the inter-connective powers of the internet to mean something more than your church, your neighborhood, your county? What if those who are used to holding the reins are unsettled by this and are trying to regain control using fear, misinformation, and divisive tactics to splinter the population into controllable factions?
What if enough isn't nearly enough? What if we are growing into something more but haven't found our way to it quite yet? What if stopping now is a mistake?
What if a 'What if' article is just another way of starting a fairy tale instead of using 'Once upon a time, in a land far far away'?
-------------------- No longer eligible for government service due to lack of tax issues. Posts: 5178 | From: Up North | Registered: Dec 2005
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posted
As to why I was surprised to see you post this Seek?
I view the original piece as quasi-militant egocentric anti-government propaganda.
It does have common ties to some Marxist theory and I find it interesting that it would strike a chord with someone such as yourself.
This is why I made a separate post questioning the meaning behind your title to this piece. I wonder if this isn't just a mental exercise? Introduce an object into a room and observe the reactions of the subjects within.
-------------------- No longer eligible for government service due to lack of tax issues. Posts: 5178 | From: Up North | Registered: Dec 2005
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posted
What if an early enacted Obamacare could have prevented or mitigated the Cholera pandemics or the 1918 flu?
actually, that's the best response i can imagine to the question what if.
i actually know alot about the cholera epidemics, and in fact our Govt DID enact Laws to prevent them.. they basically say don't crap or pee in our drinking water. perfectly reasonable and very simple look up cholera, it is caused by consuming fecal matter, more soldiers died prior to WW1 from it than from wounds and fighting.Alexander? he knew he had to keep moving (away from the toilets) to keep his army strong, led him across the known world..
on the other hand? Congress is abusing the Constitution and has been for a long time. the proof is that they knew they had to Contstruct eh 18th to control alcohol, and then decided they could get around that for other drugs.. not cool, not cool at all.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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quote:I view the original piece as quasi-militant egocentric anti-government propaganda.
That's probably not an unfair description, Big. With the exception of the 'egocentric' part, I'd even go so far as to say I agree with it.
quote:It does have common ties to some Marxist theory and I find it interesting that it would strike a chord with someone such as yourself.
ROFLMAO...now that I will take as a compliment, Big.
How much have you studied about Marxism? While I whole-hearted believe that he was misguided and most who claim his work as the basis of their political beliefs/revolutions have done so out of a selfish desire to replace whatever their current political structure is with one they control, I do see some virtue in the 'ideal' he was trying to reach.
Sadly, the inherent nature of mankind prevents such an ideal from being achieved. Greed and lust for power overshadow any attempt to form a truly communistic system. Never in human history have any of these 'revolutions' achieved Marx's vision...death and slavery and poverty have always followed in their wake...always.
That is due to the simple fact of cause and effect, Big. The 'Dictatorship of the Proletariat' cannot serve man's needs because it fails to reward EFFORT over SLOTH. It ignores ABILITY and gives the bounty to NEED. Any system that does so is doomed to failure...with grave consequences and high prices in terms of human suffering.
While Capitalism has its flaws, it is the closest form of a true Meritocrasy that man has been able to apply to human interactions. The more you attempt to remove this 'effort brings rewards' cause/effect from the system, the more you create a system that CANNOT sustain itself.
quote:I wonder if this isn't just a mental exercise? Introduce an object into a room and observe the reactions of the subjects within.
More of a 'help me decide where I sit on this' exercise. I believe in Capitalism (no shocker, I'm sure), and I find the path our country is pursuing currently as self-destructive. Some claim they work from a sense of charity, or equity, or fainess, or whatever the 'feel-good' excuse of the moment happens to be. I applaud their apparent motivation, but much of what they are attempting cannot last long term.
posted
The more you attempt to remove this 'effort brings rewards' cause/effect from the system, the more you create a system that CANNOT sustain itself.
tell me, do you think the "just" rewards for writing a computer program that can trade 60 (or more) times per second in an effort to "win" at the market is to live the rest of your life in luxury? do you thatink that is sustainable capitalism?
i don't, and that's where we are right now... that's why we are where are now too..
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
BTW? i agree with you about Marx. it is utopian and it is because we are not "perfect" (literally as Jesus was) that we cannot live in a Marxist system..
before you ask me how a deist can refer to Jesus remembr that i can still respect the Faith of others and that it matters not if the whole story is true, or even just parts
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
I agree that communistic theory does not work in reality but I wholly disagree with your reasoning as to why.
I don't have time tonight but I will try to expand tomorrow or Thursday.
-------------------- No longer eligible for government service due to lack of tax issues. Posts: 5178 | From: Up North | Registered: Dec 2005
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