posted
1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity, by legislating the wealth out of prosperity.
2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.
3. The government cannot give to anybody, anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.
4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it!
5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work, because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that is the beginning of the end of any nation.
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Right now you may think this is funny if you are sick in the head. Or your first thought may be a heavy heart and you thank god that you don't have to be in the same position.
We are not far from that crowd turning to rage from there hoplessness.
-------------------- Wise men learn more from fools than fools from the wise.
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"1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity, by legislating the wealth out of prosperity.
2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.
3. The government cannot give to anybody, anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.
4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it!
5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work, because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that is the beginning of the end of any nation."
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I am not sure where those statements fit in with todays society?
There are problems on all sides, i just don't see those statements to be very effective in solving any problems we have today if taken literly.
We do have a certain obligation as a nation, the question is how do we really define obligation.
In this nations early years we had several defining documents.
"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence" promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."
posted
Iwish, it's all platitudes and wishful thinking for an American past that never really was. A logical raze would reveal the hidden agenda(s) in those 5 "statements."
Another example of "it kinda sounds good," but doesn't pan out. An old joke goes something like, "By the time she says she ain't that kinda girl? She already is."
Same thing: anybody who buys into these "statements"? Well, they already is...
-------------------- Nashoba Holba Chepulechi Adventures in microcapitalism...
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"Another example of "it kinda sounds good," but doesn't pan out. An old joke goes something like, "By the time she says she ain't that kinda girl? She already is."
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Had not heard that one before but sure could find a lot of places it fits perfectly.
Right now you may think this is funny if you are sick in the head. Or your first thought may be a heavy heart and you thank god that you don't have to be in the same position.
We are not far from that crowd turning to rage from there hoplessness.
posted
I agree with all 5 statements and they can all be summed up with the most basic economic idea....."there is no such thing as a free lunch."
Somebody always has to pay. So I guess the question is "should lunch be free for SOME people?"...... I say that it should in instances where people find themselves in temporary hardships. But I reject the idea of programs and laws that serve to enslave portions of society for the sake of creating a solid voting block.
"give a man a fish and he will eat for a day; teach him to fish and he can eat for life"......and I will add: "if the SOB is to sorry to get off his azz and bait his on hook then don't waste your time giving him sustenance or knowledge."....... in my opinion.....if that idea was followed, the world would be a much better place in very short order.
-------------------- "The greatest argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter." (WC)
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"Let me describe the perfect date: I take her out to a nice dinner. She looks amazing. Some guy tries to hit on her... now he wants to fight- so I grab him- I throw him into the jukebox! Then the other ninja's got a knife, he comes at me, we grapple, I turn his knife on him. Blood on the dance floor. She's scared now. I take her home. I'm holding her in my arms. I reach in for a kiss... I hear something in the leaves, I flip her around, she gets a poison arrow right in her back. She was in on it the whole time... but I knew"
-------------------- It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so.
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I agree with all 5 statements and they can all be summed up with the most basic economic idea....."there is no such thing as a free lunch."
Somebody always has to pay. So I guess the question is "should lunch be free for SOME people?"...... I say that it should in instances where people find themselves in temporary hardships. But I reject the idea of programs and laws that serve to enslave portions of society for the sake of creating a solid voting block.
"give a man a fish and he will eat for a day; teach him to fish and he can eat for life"......and I will add: "if the SOB is to sorry to get off his azz and bait his on hook then don't waste your time giving him sustenance or knowledge."....... in my opinion.....if that idea was followed, the world would be a much better place in very short order.
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I guess everyone reads into these type of statements what they have heard and maybe seen.
Each one of these statements makes no sense from what i have read and seen in this new era, wish they did.
1. Don't see the poor becoming prosperous by my definition, but then again my definition of prosperous probably is different.
2. Another person works for and doesn't recieve?
I've noticed that in many large corporations especially in the upper ranks, not enough pay because of the divide and that list goes on and on.
3. The Government does not give We give. But again who really gives the most per their pay check.
4.You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it? why not? depends what you divide out, it happens all the time look and the big boys and their wealth does not grow?
The problem is we only divide the great percentage between us pions the middle and lower class, again class has to be defined for this era. The upper class doesn't even feel the divide, except in thoery.
5.The people don't have to work? There aren't enough jobs to work, let alone ones that pay enough to get by, but the person that wrote #5 had to be smoking something good.
Has anyone really seen the poor becoming properous because they have received aid. This one really makes me laugh, were not talking about fraud, just normal aid and assistance!
This nation needs to do something major pretty soon, but the major thing that needs to be done all the policians are afraid to do and it's got nothing to do with the poor and aid, things will change if they do and for the better.
posted
We have a lot to learn as a people in any society there are those that produce less than others or they don't have the skills that some may have. Does this state in anyway that there labor or work can't put a roof over there head or feed them?
If the market sets somebodies wages at ten dollars an hour thats what the get and the business person is happy. Now the housing market does not agree there is no place the worker can rent if he makes a wage that is 10 dollars an hour.The paying of a sub standard wage ripples threw the whole business community so if tax money is used to subsidise low wages and people can live it is the business community who in the end gets the better of the deal and wins. This stops a lot of revolutions and civil unrest which in turn makes a better business enviorment.
-------------------- Wise men learn more from fools than fools from the wise.
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quote:Originally posted by T e x: Iwish, it's all platitudes and wishful thinking for an American past that never really was. A logical raze would reveal the hidden agenda(s) in those 5 "statements."
Another example of "it kinda sounds good," but doesn't pan out. An old joke goes something like, "By the time she says she ain't that kinda girl? She already is."
Same thing: anybody who buys into these "statements"? Well, they already is...
Tex, as a nation as a whole we are extremely giving. We feel good about helping people in need. I feel it's built in to our nature as Americans. Heck we even helped you in your time of need and most if not all have ever met you in person. That to me is what being an American is all about.
I understand these are hard times and many people are hurting due to unemployment and issues that are out of their hands.
But....On that same point I have yet to meet a highly motivated person who has been unemployed for more than 3 months. It's not in their nature. Those who are willing will find a way to make it happen to support themselves and their loved ones.
What we are building in this nation is laziness and in essence slavery.
I have had 2 examples within the past 24 hours that remind me of exactly what we are talking about here.....
1st. I pay $175 a week for my daughters summer camp yet I watched 2 others pay with a voucher given to them by uncle sam.
2nd. At the optometrists office for my daughter yesterday I have to pay a copay yet "the less fortunate" did not......
At what point and for how long can the prosperous pay and support the not so fortunate?
At what point do we consider that what we are engaging in is forced slavery?
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posted
I pay $175 a week for my daughters summer camp yet I watched 2 others pay with a voucher given to them by uncle sam.
so as one business person to another? i would ask you if the camp will be profitable without those vouchers?
i think you know how thin the profit margins have become as well as i do
secondly? the kids are the one going to camp right? not the the parents...
i still refuse to apply for grants and i have even refused to join the local artis association cuz they ONLY operat on granting...
i live in MS- arguably in the top 5 of the reddest states in the union and i see the WEALTHY people here taking more handouts than the poor...
i see it in the housing, the farming and the block granting in the community- it's insane how many people make their living offa grantwriting here and how many people suggest that i should do it too- i am talking people that drive new cars and live in big houses, not the section 8 housing folks..
we just had a major flood, the stories i am hearing about how much money people are collecting from FEMA is sickenng...
you cannot imagine how many doctors and laywers wives jobs are nothing BUT grantwriting... they get grant to open restaurants adn shops that they run for three years with no intention of succeeding and then they fold and do ita gain- all the while they collect nice paychecks off the SBA grants adn loans that they default on...
i'm tired of the hypocrisy, i think when the budget ax falls? you will see alot of hardworking people get hurt and i mean really bad.. i beleive it's about to happen too...
the Government doesn't "give away" nearly so much money as it pays out in actual paychecks to people who go to work everyday...
the sad truth is those people are now considered well paid when ten years ago they were laughed at, an that's not because they have been overpaid, it's because the Walmart payscale has won out int his country...
i am by nature an optimist, and i don't think things look very good at all right now.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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"But....On that same point I have yet to meet a highly motivated person who has been unemployed for more than 3 months. It's not in their nature. Those who are willing will find a way to make it happen to support themselves and their loved ones."
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It's a rather discourging process these days and has been for quite some time.
I would think for many that have little education and less job experiance it has to be depressing because of the low pay involved etc.
For those let's say 50 years old and above it's even more of a joke in most cases and companies know that.
If you have worked for a living 60,000 (just a random number) and above in the past with a degree, you will most likely have to accect half that or less to work again... if your lucky.
You don't think that's discouraging? Imagine a minium wage person and having families to support, let alone having to get real lucky to get a job in this hurting labor market.
Then you have people with criminal records, i am not talking major ones, bad credit reports,non skilled and the list goes on and on of things that put you down the hiring list.
I know i would have a tough time getting motivated to look for a job or going through all the garbage you have to put up with in interviews that absolutly has nothing to do with how i will perform on a job let alone get the job.
We need new jobs in this country, or just some of our old ones back, i feel so bad for people that are having such a tough time finding any jobs that can even begin to support our young and older people, i know many.
My wife and me have been very lucky so far that our kids have found okay jobs that have paid their bills and supported their familes, i always knock on wood when i say this because i know how fragil the job market is, i have plenty of friends that their kids are not in the same situation.
posted
I put an ad on craigslist yesterday looking for a $10/hr helper...within a few hours i had 20 responses. many were from men in there 40s with a family...looking for anything.
1 Billion dollars multiplied by 3% is still 30 Million no matter if one man owns it or 75,000 men do.
If it didn't, our monetary system (as we know it) wouldn't exist.
Why bend over backwards to serve the one man at the expense of the 75,000 when the one man already knows and has the resources to serve himself whenever he wishes?
I also have a problem with #5.
Except for during these types of rough economic times where established corporations are too scared to spend their capital on personnel unemployment is generally stable.
I don't know who fed you this idea that 50% of this nation doesn't want to work...but it ain't true. There are loafers in this nation just as there are sexual deviants in this nation. They are not and never will be a majority, for to embrace such a lifestyle is to live a life of constant frustration and disappointment.
As to your other points?
I agree with half of the first statement. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity. The rest of the sentence is unnecessary.
The second statement is true. It is a fairly accurate definition of the word 'giving'.
For your third statement I would say that first off it is a misstatement as the government invests monies just like the rest of us and can realize a profit on the sale of resources, stocks, patents, census information, etc.
Secondly I would say that the government is by the people for the people. The people as a whole, not a certain segment. It is and was always meant to be an equalizer, not a separator.
You think it is unfair that you pay for your daughter's summer camp personally while others do not? I challenge you to find any one of those men to be a person you would desire to trade situations with. I have known men on assistance who need it and those who abused it. I would not want any of their lives, no matter how much free time came with it.
-------------------- No longer eligible for government service due to lack of tax issues.
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posted
"You think it is unfair that you pay for your daughter's summer camp personally while others do not? I challenge you to find any one of those men to be a person you would desire to trade situations with. I have known men on assistance who need it and those who abused it. I would not want any of their lives, no matter how much free time came with it".
Bigfoot, You clearly make my point.
The free time that comes at our expense only leads to more derelict behavior. Laziness provided by our nations finest. More time to drink beer and smoke butts...... What this so called "help" does is retard us as a whole.
Of course I wouldn't want to trade position with any of these men. Their minds are melting. It's the numbing of America at its finest.
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quote:Originally posted by The Bigfoot: Oh? Taking away summer camp from his daughter is going to change his behavior? Or is it just punishing the girl for her fathers mistakes?
Actually, it may help to change his behavior. It sure would make me want to try harder.
We need gumption back in this country. Not men with their hands out.
Hell look at what happens when we give so freely to other countries.....they just expect it. Some of which can't stand Americans. There is no appreciation left....just expectations.
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"Actually, it may help to change his behavior. It sure would make me want to try harder.
We need gumption back in this country. Not men with their hands out.
Hell look at what happens when we give so freely to other countries.....they just expect it. Some of which can't stand Americans. There is no appreciation left....just expectations. "
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That's where me and you and maybe others completely differ.
When indivuals somehow think that punishing the kids is a way to get back at their parents goes way out of line.
I have spent many many years in youth sports in fairly upscale areas and lower income areas as i believe Tex has.
I feel that any way you can keep youth in good activities(sports etc.) it's a major plus and the cost minor, I've sponsored kids over the years many times and will do it again.
It also gives some of them a place to escape, if for even a short time from the crappy life some are stuck in.
Aren't you a real religious person a surfer?
What is gumption?
Sounds like words they used just before i was drafted and why we fight wars...make us tougher?
quote:Originally posted by IWISHIHAD: Originally Posted By A Surfer:
"Actually, it may help to change his behavior. It sure would make me want to try harder.
We need gumption back in this country. Not men with their hands out.
Hell look at what happens when we give so freely to other countries.....they just expect it. Some of which can't stand Americans. There is no appreciation left....just expectations. "
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That's where me and you and maybe others completely differ.
When indivuals somehow think that punishing the kids is a way to get back at their parents goes way out of line.
I have spent many many years in youth sports in fairly upscale areas and lower income areas as i believe Tex has.
I feel that any way you can keep youth in good activities(sports etc.) it's a major plus and the cost minor, I've sponsored kids over the years many times and will do it again.
It also gives some of them a place to escape, if for even a short time from the crappy life some are stuck in.
Aren't you a real religious person a surfer?
What is gumption?
Sounds like words they used just before i was drafted and why we fight wars...make us tougher?
Doesn't work!
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IWISH you have no idea how generous a person I am and how much I give of myself to help every human being I come into contact with. Including children.
OK the camp point was harsh, I realize that. It was an example of what I had witnessed that day.
gump·tion [guhmp-shuhn] Show IPA –noun Informal . 1. initiative; aggressiveness; resourcefulness: With his gumption he'll make a success of himself. 2. courage; spunk; guts: 3. common sense; shrewdness.
IMO the definition of gumption is exactly what this country needs
You are not grasping my point whatsoever.
WE ARE CREATING A NEW CLASS OF SLAVERY!!!!!!
that's it.
Am I religious???
The ocean is my church and where I connect with my inner soul. For that I am grateful.
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quote:Originally posted by raybond: We have a lot to learn as a people in any society there are those that produce less than others or they don't have the skills that some may have. Does this state in anyway that there labor or work can't put a roof over there head or feed them?
If the market sets somebodies wages at ten dollars an hour thats what the get and the business person is happy. Now the housing market does not agree there is no place the worker can rent if he makes a wage that is 10 dollars an hour.The paying of a sub standard wage ripples threw the whole business community so if tax money is used to subsidise low wages and people can live it is the business community who in the end gets the better of the deal and wins. This stops a lot of revolutions and civil unrest which in turn makes a better business enviorment.
Bunk. That's simply ridiculous. How am I as an employer better off paying for a subsidy simply because an employer down the street doesn't pay a competitive wage? Wouldn't it be a better idea to see what the results of their wage structure is in their finished product and let the market determine who thrives and who doesn't?
In essence you're advocating paying the lowest wage possible because the government will make the playing field level by taking care of those that work for employer A versus employer B. That's a great idea Ray.
How about this, you own a business that makes toothpicks and right across the street I own an equally sized business that makes the exact same toothpick. I pay my assembly line toothpick packager 5 bucks an hour while you pay yours 10 for the exact same job. Do you not see the logical conclusion to that scenario?
Under your plan what possible reason do you have to continue paying double my wage rate? None whatsoever, the government is going to insure that our employees are equal. As a business owner you'll cut your wage rate to the lowest possible level and we'll co-exist with no incentive to improve our toothpicks. Christ, people will bleed out from wood wounds.
In a free market though I'll be put out of business because of my labor situation. My toothpicks might be less costly than yours but they're just not the same finely polished pick that you put out. My customers are constantly complaining of wood chips lodged in their teeth, bleeding gums, etc. while yours are happy, clean tooth-pickers. Eventually the toothpick market is going to gravitate towards you.
I realize that's a pretty simplistic sketch but it illustrates the end result of your utopian view. The civil unrest issue that you think would be non-existent in the Raybond economy would be the exact opposite, unless of course you had the government quell it.
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"IWISH you have no idea how generous a person I am and how much I give of myself to help every human being I come into contact with. Including children.
OK the camp point was harsh, I realize that. It was an example of what I had witnessed that day.
gump·tion [guhmp-shuhn] Show IPA –noun Informal . 1. initiative; aggressiveness; resourcefulness: With his gumption he'll make a success of himself. 2. courage; spunk; guts: 3. common sense; shrewdness.
IMO the definition of gumption is exactly what this country needs
You are not grasping my point whatsoever.
WE ARE CREATING A NEW CLASS OF SLAVERY!!!!!!
that's it.
Am I religious???
The ocean is my church and where I connect with my inner soul. For that I am grateful."
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Oh i Grasp what you are saying.
We need to watch out that we don't get bitter the older we get, not an easy task.
Again the kids are the future, no reason to put the burden on their heads because of what their parents have fallen into.
More and more people are having less and less control over their lives and incomes as the economy grows worse.
This is not something that has just happened, it's been turning this way more and more since the eighties or even ealier.
We have more and more people in the US and the world, more technology and less jobs.
The US population grows and major industries have lost their production to foreign soils and cheap labor.
Where are these jobs going to come from to support these people that have the Gumption as you define it above.
How do you find a job or jobs to support your family, especially with little education etc. and inflation the way it is today, then throw in Health care.
I wish it was as simple as the word Gumption, but in todays economy and life for more and more people it is not.
Iwish i thought it was it would make it much easier to look at all these young kids futures and say it looks rosey.
Back when i was younger that could have been said, not necessarily that it was but the outlook was much better.
No i don't have any idea how generous you are, i think that is great that you are.
I am not that generous, but sure try and give some in different ways if possible.
More importantly for me i try and put myself in peoples shoes as much as possible.
I can really only guess in some instances how bad it must be, then i try and be as supportive as possible, it's hard sometimes with all the garbage that goes on.
But i never put the burden on the kids back, even though the kids carry it with them many times over in a lot of situations.
How do you get motivated if you know you can never get ahead?
posted
WE ARE CREATING A NEW CLASS OF SLAVERY!!!!!!
this is not NEW! the Russian Revolution and the French Reolution were fought because of the same exact issues.
the only differnce is that wealth was more strictly inheritable then. it is still very heritable now tho-
to say that a black kid raised on the other side of the tracks where i live now has the same oppportunity that my kids have is absolutely ludicrous! and it's not that kids fault he/she was born there.
i listened to Dave Ramsey for a few minutes the other day and couldn't beleive he is still on the radio- he was actually berating his callers for being stupid- they were begging him for help and he called them stupid right on the phone with them, and they agreed with him...
he has only just realised what many of us have known for years. Our whole system is geared toward having dumb consumers. The system ecnourages stupidity. How many people save up to buy a car cash? Anybody that can afford to buy a new car can buy buy a hooptie and save the payments for a few years to go buy new car for half waht they will pay by buying on credit, and they even have better negotiating power on th eprice. Does anybody even do that anymore?
renting a house to save for a new home cash won't work that way i grant you, but now that people are being required to come up with 20% down? you won't see housing prices go insane again either
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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posted
I can't say that I was raised poor but I can say that I was raised in a house that was very lower middle class. The situation improved to the extent by the time I moved out at age 19 the family was middle middle class. The reason is because my parents busted their azzez.
Mom was an LPN, dad a firefighter (in a town of 4000 neither of those jobs paid over $8/hr in the 80s. Hell, when dad became chief is when he went barely above 10.
Mom went back to school full time at around age 30, worked full time in town at the hospital, commuted 2 hrs a day to school sixty miles away, and Graduated the nursing program summa cum laude and became an RN. That more than doubled her income at the time.
I say that to say this. I can feel bad for kids that are less fortunate, but what about their parents? My parents gave a great example to follow and I have done fair.....not great by any means but fair.
If it were not for my parents effort (and pride), I could have and probably would have, been one of the unfortunate kids mentioned in some of the above posts. But what would the hand outs have taught me.....especially receiving hand outs in conjunction with sorry parents?....... It would have taught me that hard work doesn't pay dividends, that in the interest of some peoples conscious I will be provided for.....so why work hard. I think that most of us are fine with idea of leaving a lazy adult to their own devices, but struggle with watching a kid learn tough life lessons because their parents laziness, failures, or inabilities.......that human.
But it is important to differentiate what is causing the childs need. I would not give a dime to the child of a lazy person. To do so only reinforces the idea that society will leave "no child behind." In contrast, I am ready and willing to give the shirt off of my back to the child of a hard working parent that has hit a rough spell. One is helping out (valuable to all) one is a handout (serves nobody).
-------------------- "The greatest argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter." (WC)
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posted
Upside I just read your post. What other expalation do you give for rent subsides I don't understand you or the explanation of why rent subsides exist. I am not giving you an emperical expalnation or anything that we should do it is being done. I still say that the reason any kind of subsides are being handed out out are to keep domestic peace. So did President Johnson who started it.
-------------------- Wise men learn more from fools than fools from the wise.
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"But it is important to differentiate what is causing the childs need. I would not give a dime to the child of a lazy person. To do so only reinforces the idea that society will leave "no child behind." In contrast, I am ready and willing to give the shirt off of my back to the child of a hard working parent that has hit a rough spell. One is helping out (valuable to all) one is a handout (serves nobody)."
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I find the answers interesting and i assume there are plenty of others out there that feel the same.
It really wakes me up realizing another issue kids face from other families and their kids since parents talk around their kids, always important when i am coaching.
It's just hard for me to imagine that depriving a kid From playing baseball,soccer,basketball, dance etc. is somehow going to change how kids grow up for the better.
From what i have read involving kids in sports etc. tends to keep them more out of our houses pockets, jail etc.
Again it seems to me that you and A Surfer are stating that the kid is suppose to change the parent, so by depriving the kid the parent will change his or her lifestyle... good luck
Give them a decent paying job and they will, it is not the eighties or earlier anymore, like i said before it's getting much harder to make ends meet which i am sure you know.
Doesn't mean that there isn't any exceptions to the rule, they are just getting farther and farther in between.
The first step to help things would be to take care of the fraud that is committed so easily these days, that wouldn't hurt a bit.
posted
I can't speak for surfer, but if you are under the impression that my thinking is an effort to change the parent then I failed to illustrate my point.
I don't give a hoot in hell about such parents.
But to I should qualify or disqualify myself.....however one would like to look at it.
I have no doubt that you are much more experienced in dealing with kids.
My thoughts on the matter are from this point of view: "if I were a kid in such a situation, what actions would benefit me greatest?.....long term."
That is probably the same question that you ask yourself......the rub is that we just have different answers to the same question......and I don't really believe that either of us are wrong.
My answer would be as follows:
(please bear in mind that I am not talking of depriving a child of basic life needs....even I am not that big of an azz)
In my mind, if I were such a child, missing out on such things would lead me to question why I was having to miss out. Believing that kids are very perceptive.....I believe that they would figure out relatively quickly that they are missing out because their parents are sorry azzez. The more they miss out on the more they resent having to miss out......at some point they resolve to be different.....to work hard to provide for themselves.....to not let their kids view them in the same light that they viewed their parents.
(please remember that I am only referring to the kids of lazy parents.....and keep in mind that I come from and live in a tiny community.....such an environment means that I "know" most parents pretty well, so its easier to say if the parents are sorry or not. In a city or larger community, I could see where a condition of annonymity (sp?) may exist concerning the work ethic of the parent)
I am guessing that you would answer that question with something like:
"The child should be able to be a child like other kids regardless of what kind of parents he or she has."
I respect that....very noble.....very admirable. I just don't believe in its effectivness. IMO, the kid plays ball, learns a sport, perhaps makes friends, perhaps learns sportsmanship,......but ultimately returns to the same condition and may never come to the realization necessary to break the cycle of laziness, apathy, sloth,.....or whatever one would like to call it.
In truth, not all kids are the same.....I am sure that many if not most would be more benefitted by someone demonstrating your thoughts.....but then there are those that would be most benefitted by mine.
Sorry for the rambling....
All that said, I see your point and I am glad that there are people that feel the way you do.
Have a good weekend everyone.
-------------------- "The greatest argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter." (WC)
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posted
I guess i was just very naieve to this idea.
It still seems to me that this is a hugh burden to put on a kids back!
Kids are very perceptive as you stated, more so than many parents give them credit for, that's the bad news in this case and some others.
As far as sepatating who has lazy parents and who does not, who would make that choice?
Bottom line in this idea would be if you don't have the money to pay then you don't play, it isn't going to matter why.
I realize that these are the thoughts of what some would like to see, not in force around my area... thank goodness
But i also realize that many times our thoughts as parents are passed on to our kids and many times our kids speak out, act out these thoughts and that's where the problems start.
posted
The more they miss out on the more they resent having to miss out......at some point they resolve to be different.....to work hard to provide for themselves.....to not let their kids view them in the same light that they viewed their parents.
unfortunately that is not how the human mind works for all people.
i am basically a Deist in the jeffersonian sense. I beleive in a Creator that has no personality or Magic (call it what you like, raising the dead and walking on water and breathing life into a clay sculpture are Magic)
i beleive we are an evolving species and evolution NEVER happens in a whole colony all at once. It happens individual by individual over time. The fact hat you expect people to be better shows that you have already evolved to a new level, but you must understand that whole lifetimes are but a second in evolutionand some people are not going to evolve. Furhtermore? As the lowest individuals in whatever the curretn timeframe selects as being the most successful evolve "upward" the "upper individuals" are also evolving upward.
now here's where it get tricky. sometimes the "times" change completely and what was selected for over the last millenium or two become useless in the "new time".
just 60 years ago Marylin Monroe was the hottest body on the market, today she would be called fat and obese on the BMI chart.. the "human colony" has to carry bad baggage because we may need it just to survive tomorrow.
we really have no clue what we need to "look like" and be next year.
take the "simple" invention of eyeglasses. how many "blind as a bat" kids were thought to be totally useless five hundred years ago and are now the richest people (the most evolved and successful) on the planet? My bet would be almost every single one of the "most evolved" people today would have been total failures five hundred years ago. Geeks rule now
Peasant have always existed and always will for that reason alone, they are a "library of genetic information" and it is a biological imperative that we have it.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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posted
I know he qualified it with small-town parameters, but in any city of any size that I know of nowadays, kids--especially "fringe kids"--don't merely drift or tend toward gangs...they get recruited.
That was the tipping point for me, when deciding whether to launch an all-out, full-scale assault with my youth program: I *watched* the gangs work the east side of the elementary school where we practiced, while we were coaching on the west side.
Anyway, those "5 best" statements/sentences, whatever? All based on eliciting an emotional response. I don't deny for one millisecond that many people *feel* that way--but that doesn't make them true.
[ July 30, 2011, 02:30: Message edited by: T e x ]
-------------------- Nashoba Holba Chepulechi Adventures in microcapitalism...
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quote:Originally posted by T e x: I know he qualified it with small-town parameters, but in any city of any size that I know of nowadays, kids--especially "fringe kids"--don't merely drift or tend toward gangs...they get recruited.
That was the tipping point for me, when deciding whether to launch an all-out, full-scale assault with my youth program: I *watched* the gangs work the east side of the elementary school where we practiced, while we were coaching on the west side.
Anyway, those "5 best" statements/sentences, whatever? All based on eliciting an emotional response. I don't deny for one millisecond that many people *feel* that way--but that doesn't make them true.
well, i don't argue that they are untrue, i argue that they do not apply to the nations Wealth problems that we face today.
the natiaonal debt was not created because the "poor people" are sucking the life out of our country.
the nations problem are caused by the Wealthy sucking the life out of our country.
fact is? this problem started back int eh late 70's with arbitrage traders.
it was a good gimmick to "make wealth out of nothing".
problem is? it was not made out of nothing.
Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration. Abraham Lincoln
here's how it worked.
the bond market paid huge dividends. motrgage interest rates were in teh mid teens and even higher.
Investors were heavily into mortgage bonds because they offered a better safer return than the stock market. This led to depressed prices in the stock market. Enter the evil Corporate Raider. These basturds could literally buy the stock in coorporation for less than the face value of the company. They did it with a tool called the leveraged buyout. Thye borrowed the money to get controlling interest in comapany and then destroyed the company just like the car crusher does at the junkyard. They borrowed most of that money from "investment banks i.e. the stock market itself. That was the beginning of the end of American Prosperity. This notion that our debt is the reason we are out of jobs or that high taxes are job killers are both wrong and wrong minded. The facts are that we have had 30 years of "bankers" or "investors" or "traders" or whetever you want to call the Wall St types who have literally gutted our economic engines in three distinct and separate ways.
the second way they did it was witht the "internet bubble" and the third way they did it was with criminally cheap mortgages...
the Govt is going start printing money now, the TParty has refused to allow taxes to be raised and refused to allow debt to increase, and the Wall St types are going to demand MONEY! and they are going to force the treasury to print it and it's going to be ugly.
labor produces Capital, the treasury cannot print money without it representing labor, and it hasn't represent labor for along time now...
taxes represent labor for the common cause, and there does not seem to be a common cause anymore.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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