posted
"As the deficit debate in Washington grows increasingly noisy, a research group said Monday that a tax on financial "speculation" could help resolve some of the nation's thorniest fiscal problems.
The Center for Economic and Policy Research, a left leaning group, said that a tax on trades of stocks, options, futures and other financial instruments could generate $150 billion this year, or over 1% of U.S. gross domestic product.
While the idea of taxing financial transactions is not new, it has gained some traction overseas in the wake of the global financial crisis.
French President Nicolas Sarkozy, in comments Monday, said a financial transaction tax is one of his top priorities as leader of the Group of 20 nations this year, according to press reports.
The CEPR study looks at a 0.25% tax on stock trades in the United Kingdom and estimates that an equivalent tax in the United States could raise $40 billion a year for the Treasury.
"This is not hypothetical," said Dean Baker, co-director at CEPR and author of the report, in a statement. "The UK has used an FST to collect large amounts of revenue," he said, adding that the International Monetary fund "is currently advocating the tax in recognition of the enormous amount of waste and rents in the financial sector."
Baker argues that taxing speculation will put more of the burden on more sophisticated investors such as hedge funds, and will not hurt individual investors, who will simply make fewer trades.
He says the money generated from the tax could be used to cover the cost of extending benefits for the unemployed, the projected Social Security shortfall and provide much needed aid for cash-strapped U.S. states.
The CEPR also argues that big institutional investors, which use trading algorithms to gain an advantage in the market, do not contribute any "obvious benefit to the economy."
The financial services industry, of course, disagrees.
Scott Talbott, spokesman for the Financial Services Roundtable, said taxing stock trades would hurt individual investors by driving up fees on their 401(k), college fund or pension plans.
"The fund managers would simply pass the tax down to the average Americans who are trying to save," he said.
Kent Smetters, a professor at the University of Pennsylvania's Wharton School of Business, said he understands why some are calling for the tax.
Some think big investment funds that use sophisticated trading software are middlemen gaming a flawed system. But others argue that a tax would be unfair because traders provide a benefit in the form of efficient pricing and liquidity in the market.
Smetters added that a "small tax" would probably not hurt individual investors, though he said 0.25% "seems steep."
The proposal is one of many being discussed in Washington as the nation's swelling deficit and growing demand for social services from a rapidly aging population loom large.
Republicans in Congress have been calling for drastic spending cuts across a range of government programs. President Obama is widely expected to emphasize "investments" in key areas when he delivers the State of the Union address Tuesday."
posted
I dont like the idea of it, because they already tax the financial sector. They need to cut spending, not take in more to be able to spend more on new programs they think will work.
Stop taxing the hell out of everyone multiple times over, and cut the Pentagons budget some. I am sure there are some overseas bases we could afford to close down.
Everyone has got to give, people always say "yeah but if we cut this then this happens" "dont you want roads?"
Yeah, everyone wants roads and certain things. We need to take a step back while this economy recovers...slow down the spending. Then the next time things are good if that ever happens we can look at them again. Commerce, agriculture, defense, government reform, etc all have to take a hit. I know most here dont agree, most here wouldnt be upset if the federal tax rate went to 50%, and would find some way why its justified. state, federal, and local tax rates...then sales taxes on food and clothing, man its just a lot.
Oh yes and why not reform the spy agencies and homeland security? How many spy agencies do we have?
-------------------- It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so. Posts: 6949 | Registered: Apr 2004
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posted
Oh and here is something we should have never done:
The embassy in Baghdad
"American officials project that the embassy will need more than $1.8 billion each year in 2010 and 2011, compared with this year's estimated $1.5 billion budget, according to the inspector general."
I remember when it was being built...they were saying it was something like $600,000,000 to build, and yes...I know Bush was prez and thats what sucked up a ton of money. That war should never had happened.
-------------------- It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so. Posts: 6949 | Registered: Apr 2004
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posted
because they already tax the financial sector.
i know for a fact that the financial sector pays lower tax rates than i do.
as to Knowing what others think? i know that you don't.
cuz if you did? you'd know that, i, for instance do care and do not WANT to pay higher taxes, i just happen to KNOW that it's the only way that we will fix this debt problem....
cutting spending alone will not fix it, we do need to cut spending, but we cannot cut it enough to fix it and keep the economy going as poorly as it going right now, much less improve it...
this is one of the issues that FOX spends alot of time lying about. My grandparents became milionnaires the old fashioned way, they worked hard and saved their money and paid those 50% and up taxes while they did it.. if you ask me? it's laziness and greed that people want to have all the benefits of being the most powerful country in the world and not paying the "correct" amount of taxes it take to support that. it really is that simple.
want low taxes and less govt? go live in friggin' Somalia.. they have that already and it's jsut wonderful
seriously? high taxes have historically been collected in time of great growth in the USA. and not vice veersa
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
The tax is one thing, but as i read this article i find that they start explining the ways the big boys control the market.
They seem to talk as if it's no big thing, yet if we use sophisticated systems to beat the market they prosecute us.
The Big Boys can monopolized a market and get caught, it doesn't matter anymore even when you beat the little guys down.
Wouldn't it be nice to know when the market is headed up and down, especially when you and a few of your friends control it.
What is a quarter or a half percent per trade to to the big guys to keep feds off their back, but then again why pay a quater or a half percent if you don't need to.
It really hurts the little guy who loses a lot of the time anyhow.
They state that small investors would just trade less thus staying in the stocks longer, which in this day in age puts even more risk on the little guy.
posted
They state that small investors would just trade less thus staying in the stocks longer, which in this day in age puts even more risk on the little guy.
i dunno, if you stayed in the market when it tanked because you didn't want to pay taxes? and didn't get out? you have gotten alot of your money back now. and you will eventually get it all back...
so it's not necessarily a bad thing... the market does go up in the long run.
this whole price discovery argument is BS too. price discovery happens no matter how many trades get made...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: because they already tax the financial sector.
i know for a fact that the financial sector pays lower tax rates than i do.
as to Knowing what others think? i know that you don't.
cuz if you did? you'd know that, i, for instance do care and do not WANT to pay higher taxes, i just happen to KNOW that it's the only way that we will fix this debt problem....
cutting spending alone will not fix it, we do need to cut spending, but we cannot cut it enough to fix it and keep the economy going as poorly as it going right now, much less improve it...
this is one of the issues that FOX spends alot of time lying about. My grandparents became milionnaires the old fashioned way, they worked hard and saved their money and paid those 50% and up taxes while they did it.. if you ask me? it's laziness and greed that people want to have all the benefits of being the most powerful country in the world and not paying the "correct" amount of taxes it take to support that. it really is that simple.
want low taxes and less govt? go live in friggin' Somalia.. they have that already and it's jsut wonderful
seriously? high taxes have historically been collected in time of great growth in the USA. and not vice veersa
Glass, I am not one of those who think we shouldnt pay any or hardly any. Its just the tax code to me looks like a big pile of crap that is filled with loopholes, excessiveness, and red tape. Why cant we make a much more effective and simple system that is fair for all, and doesnt leave room for people to weasel their way out of everything. We dont need more taxes, we need better control of spending. Is Washington working for us or are we working for them?
-------------------- It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so. Posts: 6949 | Registered: Apr 2004
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"i dunno, if you stayed in the market when it tanked because you didn't want to pay taxes? and didn't get out? you have gotten alot of your money back now. and you will eventually get it all back..."
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I don't think most smaller investors would stay in the market if there is a fairly large drop.
They just don't have that kind of money to risk it all, especially the ones that have it in retirement savings, the big boys know that when they trigger those stop losses.
The Big board stock market has really changed in my opinion since the big drop.
It appears to me that there is be a much larger fluctuation in prices on what i consider fairly stable stocks, especially stocks between $5-10 pps. range.
There is a ton of money to be made if you know where and when they are going up and down.
It's hard to believe that these stock brokers can show profits month after month no matter where the market goes.
Maybe i am just being pickey, but it sure seems like they have quite a monopoly going, although that really is not the right term for what they have going for them.
The stock market and the health care system i have seen to much of the last few months, both seem to suck in there own unique kind of way.
Even though i have done okay in the stock market the more i watch it the more i have my doubts about it, health care on the other hand no one does okay, except some of those providing the care and drugs, everyone else pays one way or the other.
Unfortunately we need both for our nation to survive, i think.
posted
Glass, I am not one of those who think we shouldnt pay any or hardly any. Its just the tax code to me looks like a big pile of crap that is filled with loopholes, excessiveness, and red tape. Why cant we make a much more effective and simple system that is fair for all, and doesnt leave room for people to weasel their way out of everything. We dont need more taxes, we need better control of spending. Is Washington working for us or are we working for them?
OK, Cash, finally you are starting to sound like one of us old-timers. and not in a bad way...
maybe if some of us stopped cluttering up the 'airways" with all the political crapola and began to refine and direct our messge more like a laser than a sawed off shotgun blast? beter things will happen? and no! there's no "good" answer to where we have put ourselves.
i just watched some dork on Fox try to say the econmy has finally turned a corner because of the tax cut extension. what a balatant lie, the econmy has not responded to the tax cuts yet, just like it has not repsonded to the health care law yet which is months older.
the politicians really do listen to people, and they are begining to relaise they must listen more, do not allow yourself to be drawn into the stupid flame of partisanship blame. when a Dem comes up with a good idea? say it's a good idea. when GOP come up with a bad idea say it's a bad idea.. the same goes inversely for the dems. this partisanship agenda simply gives people an excuse to not get anything done...
the Obama -Bush tax cut extension just increased our deficits by a huge amount... the GOP supposedly got elected to cut the deficits? LOL... cut spending and we will lose a lot of jobs, it's impossible to cut spending and not lose them
microtaxing individual trades would in fact tax the people that can afford it in very fair way (IMO) Warren Buffet came right out and said it, our tax structure is totally unfair, and even tho the wealthy end up carrying a large portion of the taxes? the "poor" cannot be taxed more because that wealthy get all their money from the poor (right?) i mean how else can somebody get wealthy? Every trade and every business transaction has a "winner" and "loser"... consumer? might as well just replace the word with loser in the business sense...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
Sometimes i think of the stock market as a big poker game.
the prime difference is that in poker? the chips are actually backed by real money, in the borkers case? that money is gone to their own investments...
how on earth do they mange to pay all those huge bonuses anyway?
and yes, they pass the tax along to the little guys as they always do in every venture, that's why you cannot tax the little guys anyway, if yo do?
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
They will probably just raise a fee or interest rate in one of the many things they hold a note on that us the little guy pays into, like a credit card, home loan etc.
In the end we are suppose to smile and say thank you, always wondering who cut the holes in our pockets when they gave us change back.
"JPMorgan Chase & Co.’s profits last year were the highest in the bank’s history, and Citigroup Inc. returned money to the U.S. Treasury and reported its first full- year profit since 2007."
JP Morgan's profits last year were the highest in history? How is that possible if the economy is so bad.
-------------------- It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so. Posts: 6949 | Registered: Apr 2004
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posted
JP Morgan's profits last year were the highest in history? How is that possible if the economy is so bad.
cash, this is what some of us have been trying to tell you and anybody else who will listen...
if you watch FOX daily? all you hear is a string of lies distortions and misrepresentations..
we are making real money in this country.. taxes on businesses are actaully (as opposed to advertised) very reasonable, not really low, but most definitely not high.
The govt deficit is due to lower revenues even tho corporate profits are the highest htey've ever been..
thatshould tell you something, stop for awhile and think about it.. they are making record profits and the govt is taking in record low revenues in relationship to their profits.. something ain't right, and it isn't because the govt is overspending..
YES! there are tons of stupid paperwork and requirements that we are required to do, but every single one of them are there because some butthead screwed somebody over and then the party that was screwed complained and the poltiicans reacted..
on the other side? the lobbyists have written more thna half the bills congress and the Pres. have instituted and they favor big business. They favor big biz over small biz in specific.
We have an employment problem here, but it's not because of rules and regs, it's because big biz has been gobbling up small biz and firing people that are "redundant"-- when you have two medium size competitors that combine into one large biz two things happen. One, the new co. doesn't need two bookkeepers to do the books, they only need one, so they fire one and they also do the same with all the other "redundant" employees..
the next thing that happens is that the marketplace competition has just been reduced... so prices go up.. like in the oil biz... all the consolidation of co's like Texaco and others has led to a few refiners controlling the whole market..
you don't really beleive that we don't build new oil refineries because of environmental impact studies do you? LOL.. the big guys wrote those laws so that they could decrease competition, and the "freemaketeers" know it.. but they spend all their time blaming the govt for everything... we are in big trouble, but it's not the kind of trouble the average person thinks it is, an htta's because it's damn hard to sift thru all the lies to find the truth.. glen beck and limbugger are to blame for alot of that.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
I still think China is our worst problem for the future, we are dying from within and I think China just loves watching us do it to ourselves.
-------------------- It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so. Posts: 6949 | Registered: Apr 2004
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posted
you know what's funny? China has higher actual tax rates than we do, plus the Govt owns the majority of the businesses there, so the govt controls almost every aspect of business and society...
if you followed the "conservative logic chain"? they should be broke right? LOL...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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quote:Originally posted by CashCowMoo: I still think China is our worst problem for the future, we are dying from within and I think China just loves watching us do it to ourselves.
Do you really think that!??...if you really, truly believe that, than you are indeed a blithering idiot. If Obama loves watching the US die ,,wouldnt that be a form of treason? But you THINKING that means you think he is doing things to kill this country..and thats insane!..why would he do that?..Because he's a terrorist and really wasnt born in the US??..LOL.. Good lord cow..please dont act like a buffoon...everyone is laughing at you...I'm trying to help you grow up by telling you the truth. When you say those kinds of things, folks look at you like there is something wrong in your head...
-------------------- jordan Posts: 5812 | From: st paul,mn | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by CashCowMoo: I still think China is our worst problem for the future, we are dying from within and I think China just loves watching us do it to ourselves.
Do you really think that!??...if you really, truly believe that, than you are indeed a blithering idiot. If Obama loves watching the US die ,,wouldnt that be a form of treason? But you THINKING that means you think he is doing things to kill this country..and thats insane!..why would he do that?..Because he's a terrorist and really wasnt born in the US??..LOL.. Good lord cow..please dont act like a buffoon...everyone is laughing at you...I'm trying to help you grow up by telling you the truth. When you say those kinds of things, folks look at you like there is something wrong in your head...
Whoops!..I thought you said Obama loves watching US die....sorry,,,nevermind
-------------------- jordan Posts: 5812 | From: st paul,mn | Registered: Feb 2004
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