posted
How are those sanctions working? Oh, they arent. We need to get tough, and I know everyone here keeps slamming me about being tough with the North Koreans and everything will be ok if we just ignore them.
I say send the Navy and bombard their military installations and wipe out their Navy. Turns out that they have much more sophisticated nuclear equipment that we had any idea of...wow imagine that. Who is our commander and chief again? Oh yeah.....well this could very well be brushed off again just like the sinking of the South Korean ship.
ov. 23 (Bloomberg) -- South Korea scrambled fighter jets and returned fire after North Korea lobbed dozens of shells into its territory, injuring four soldiers, Yonhap News reported.
A South Korean Defense Ministry official, who declined to be identified, confirmed the shelling, without giving any further details. The military has been put on high alert and will “respond strongly” to further provocation, he said.
Tensions with nuclear-armed North Korea have risen this year following the sinking of a South Korean warship in March that the U.S. and its allies blamed on a torpedo attack. President Barack Obama dispatched his envoy on the country, Stephen Bosworth, to Asian capitals this week after reports by a U.S. scientist that North Korea had revealed to him a “stunning” new uranium-enrichment plant.
The yen and Korean won weakened against the dollar, U.S. stock futures fell and Treasury futures rose as investors sought safe-haven investments following the report.
South Korean President Lee Myoung Bak called an emergency meeting, his office said.
The visit by to the nuclear plant this month by Stanford University professor Siegfried S. Hecker showcased technological advances that highlight the failure of sanctions to force Kim Jong Il’s regime back to disarmament talks.
“The control room was astonishingly modern,” Stanford University professor Siegfried S. Hecker wrote in his Nov. 20 report of the visit eight days earlier to the main reactor site at Yongbyon. “We saw a modern, clean centrifuge plant of more than a thousand centrifuges,” he said, a reference to the high- speed spinning devices that enrich uranium.
No Crisis
While the uranium program is “another in a series of provocative moves,” it doesn’t pose a crisis, Bosworth said yesterday in Seoul. Obama in a Nov. 10 speech in Seoul repeated his call for North Korea to cease acts of violence against the South if it wants to end its diplomatic and economic isolation.
“The U.S. is now at the crossroads of engagement and pressure, and sanctions are clearly not working,” said Yang Moo Jin, a professor at the University of North Korean Studies in Seoul. The Obama approach to North Korea “has done nothing but bolster North Korea’s nuclear capabilities,” he said.
North Korea’s reported progress in developing its nuclear energy industry casts doubt on the effectiveness of tougher United Nations sanctions imposed for its second nuclear test in May 2009. The U.S. is pushing for a global effort to choke off funds to the regime in a bid to squeeze military-related industries and force Kim back to six-party disarmament talks that also include China, Russia, South Korea and Japan.
Backpedaling
North Korea has backpedaled on steps to dismantle its nuclear weapons program since the six-party forum last convened in December 2008. In April 2009, the regime said it would restore its main reactor for making weapons-grade plutonium at Yongbyon, which had been disabled under a February 2007 accord.
It denied having a separate uranium-enrichment program, the second means of creating a nuclear device, until September 2009 when it told the UN Security Council it was “weaponizing” plutonium and had almost succeeded in highly enriching uranium.
Satellite images of the Yongbyon site taken on Nov. 4 by the Washington-based Institute for Science and International Security showed North Korea was also building a light-water reactor. Hecker, who visited the site with colleagues John W. Lewis and Robert Carlin, confirmed the construction of an “experimental” 25-30 megawatt reactor.
North Korea has 2,000 centrifuges already installed and running at the Yongbyon facility, and making low-enriched uranium, Hecker said he was told on what was his fourth visit to the facility since January 2004. Hecker headed the state-run Los Alamos National Laboratory from 1986 to 1997.
The North Korean facility, which he described as “stunning,” appeared to be designed for civilian nuclear power, although it could be readily converted to produce highly enriched uranium for bombs, he wrote on the website of Stanford’s Center for International Security and Cooperation.
Multiple centrifuges are spun at high speeds to increase the concentration of uranium that can be used in nuclear plants or, in a richer form, in bombs.
-------------------- It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so. Posts: 6949 | Registered: Apr 2004
| IP: Logged |
-------------------- It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so. Posts: 6949 | Registered: Apr 2004
| IP: Logged |
"How are those sanctions working? Oh, they arent. We need to get tough, and I know everyone here keeps slamming me about being tough with the North Koreans and everything will be ok if we just ignore them."
_________________________________________________
I don't think anyone here thinks things will be okay all the time in Korea.
They just don't want us mixed up in another war over small problems that we all hope can be worked out.
Better to have them shooting a few rounds than to send 150,000 + American soldiers to mix it up again.
Better watch what you wish for.
It is mighty cold there in the winter and mighty hot in the summer and our government will be looking for people in your age group with prior training for this type of job, travel light.
It is probably these guys below paying the NK's to fire.
posted
No I dont wish for a a land invasion, but we need to get some balls here glass. They sank a ship in March, they constantly do things over and over and they are slapping the world in their face by going on with these nukes.
Sooner or later, something is going to go down.
-------------------- It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so. Posts: 6949 | Registered: Apr 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
cash, N Korea is China's problem now, they want to be a world power they have to step up to teh plate and own their mistakes. Just like we created the Taliban when we supported the Mujahadin in Afghanistan and then dropped them when the Soviets collapsed, and we backed the Kurds to revolt against Sadam and then dropeed them too? China has created this little mess and they need to clean it up.
The South has alot of reltives int eh North and wiping them out is not popular there.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
I am not talking about wiping them out, I know they have relatives there I was stationed in Korea. We had to do alerts every month for things just like this. Our job was to race 10 minutes north to the DMZ from our camp to hold the line until reinforcements came. Our life expectancy was not very long though. We were just a speed bump.
There is artillery all over the place. Seoul has it on top of tall corporate buildings. Its like NYC with artillery cannons on top of all the buildings.
Another problem is the invasion tunnels the north might have that we have not found yet which would be a problem. You know about that though.
How long is this country going to get a pass to do whatever it wants? IT was building a nuke facility in syria which was illegal, the list of attacks from the north on the south are too numerous to list. Just the torture and starvation alone in that country warrants something to be done. That country is living in a way most americans can not even fathom.
We let NK push us around more, Obama finds ways to apologize for SOMETHING, and then watch what Iran starts doing. Same thing. Then what? Keep giving Iran a pass too? We say we dont want to attack so that justifies people dying in sacrifice? Doesnt make sense. We are becoming weak, and people are pushing us around like China. Where is Patton when you need him.
I guess it takes a Jimmy Carter to get a Ronald Reagan. Looking forward to 2012.
-------------------- It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so. Posts: 6949 | Registered: Apr 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
What does the United States usually do when we start offically shooting or dropping bombs at countries?
Take a look at our history, if North Korea was a stock and shorting it was saying we were going to send ground troops in if we fire at it them, i would be buying lots of short shares.
Maybe this time would be different, but i would not bank on it with 100,000's of American lives at stake!
quote:Originally posted by IWISHIHAD: What does the United States usually do when we start offically shooting or dropping bombs at countries?
Take a look at our history, if North Korea was a stock and shorting it was saying we were going to send ground troops in if we fire at it them, i would be buying lots of short shares.
Maybe this time would be different, but i would not bank on it with 100,000's of American lives at stake!
We don't need another history lesson.
-
Ok guys, so what should we do? Pretend it never happened? Give a public "condemnation" to North Korea? You do realize this will not go away.
You know what I would do? I would provide an equal response with interest. If I was South Korea's President and one of my naval vessels was sunk, I would sink two of theirs. If they lobbed 200 artillery shells at one of my islands they would get 400.
If they let off a Nuke, then Pyongyang would be leveled. We could Tomahawk a couple nuclear sites they have.
North Korea knows it would be messy, but in the end the allies would win no matter what. What would you do if you were a little hermit kingdom and you just got blasted to swiss cheese? Then what?
Have any of you ever watched the hidden camera videos that have been smuggled out of North Korea?
quote:Originally posted by IWISHIHAD: What does the United States usually do when we start offically shooting or dropping bombs at countries?
Take a look at our history, if North Korea was a stock and shorting it was saying we were going to send ground troops in if we fire at it them, i would be buying lots of short shares.
Maybe this time would be different, but i would not bank on it with 100,000's of American lives at stake!
We don't need another history lesson.
-
Ok guys, so what should we do? Pretend it never happened? Give a public "condemnation" to North Korea? You do realize this will not go away.
You know what I would do? I would provide an equal response with interest. If I was South Korea's President and one of my naval vessels was sunk, I would sink two of theirs. If they lobbed 200 artillery shells at one of my islands they would get 400.
If they let off a Nuke, then Pyongyang would be leveled. We could Tomahawk a couple nuclear sites they have.
North Korea knows it would be messy, but in the end the allies would win no matter what. What would you do if you were a little hermit kingdom and you just got blasted to swiss cheese? Then what?
Have any of you ever watched the hidden camera videos that have been smuggled out of North Korea?
How do we pay for another protracted war Cow? And how about a serious answer...no rhetoric this time. HOW do we pay for it?
-------------------- It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious. Posts: 3311 | From: St. Louis | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Shooting back double or more was Hitlers response to eveything. All one has to do is listen to his ramblings called speaches. Look what it did for him cashcow.
my solution let the people in the south fight for there KIAS Samsungs ect and if it is worth it to them they will be successful. If not someone eles will build cars and computers.
-------------------- Wise men learn more from fools than fools from the wise. Posts: 3827 | From: beautiful California | Registered: Sep 2008
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by IWISHIHAD: What does the United States usually do when we start offically shooting or dropping bombs at countries?
Take a look at our history, if North Korea was a stock and shorting it was saying we were going to send ground troops in if we fire at it them, i would be buying lots of short shares.
Maybe this time would be different, but i would not bank on it with 100,000's of American lives at stake!
We don't need another history lesson.
-
Ok guys, so what should we do? Pretend it never happened? Give a public "condemnation" to North Korea? You do realize this will not go away.
You know what I would do? I would provide an equal response with interest. If I was South Korea's President and one of my naval vessels was sunk, I would sink two of theirs. If they lobbed 200 artillery shells at one of my islands they would get 400.
If they let off a Nuke, then Pyongyang would be leveled. We could Tomahawk a couple nuclear sites they have.
North Korea knows it would be messy, but in the end the allies would win no matter what. What would you do if you were a little hermit kingdom and you just got blasted to swiss cheese? Then what?
Have any of you ever watched the hidden camera videos that have been smuggled out of North Korea?
How do we pay for another protracted war Cow? And how about a serious answer...no rhetoric this time. HOW do we pay for it?
I dont have the answer to that Pagan. Not like I want the war, but sooner or later North Korea is going to use nukes once they are pushed to the wall. Did you see the report that just came out on how much mroe advanced their systems are than this administration thought? It is so sophisticated they said it is impossible for North Korea to NOT have outside help. Probably China.
China should do something quick, but they dont care. They just sit on what they got and laugh at us. Obama seems to have no problem spending money we dont have, so he should have no problem spending some money on Tomahawks to lob over.
Im not saying a full scale counter attack, but if they poke us and the world sees it, then we poke them. It is time the threat from this country is dealt with before they kill millions. Millions are starving over there, its demonic how oppressive the North Korean government is.
Nukes arent the real threat either, its bio and chemo weapons. I always was within a minutes run to my chemo suit and gas mask. We did a lot of biological warfare training because of the stockpiles the north has. They can lob those things all night on top of artillery rounds and gas the hell out of seoul.
Once evidence of any nuclear, bio, or chemo weapon being used by them we need to tactical nuke that country. Wipe out key target areas. I think if the bulk of the regime is killed then the military will crumble quickly and not resist.
They have all been brainwashed so they might still keep fighting, but those who surrendered would be brought possibly to the south and would see a whole new world.
Worst case scenario is pretty much the end of the world. A war starts on the Korean peninsula and we get sucked in. Then, Iran says...perfect timing and starts prepping for an attack on Israel and Israel strikes Iran first. We are stuck in the middle with 50,000 in Iraq. taliban who see a weakness begin rising up in earnest all over Afghanistan and it starts getting real messy. Then, the draft is brought up and all able bodied men and women are looked over for the draft.
Me? Well I would volunteer and go back into the Infantry since that is what I did and I am familiar with Korea so I would ask to go there. Bring my Bible with me too because thats the kind of strength one would need to make it through it all.
Then again....nothing could happen and we go back to business as usual for another 6 months or so before North Korea does it all over again and more people die and nothing happens. Pathetic!
Posts: 6949 | Registered: Apr 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by raybond: Shooting back double or more was Hitlers response to eveything. All one has to do is listen to his ramblings called speaches. Look what it did for him cashcow.
my solution let the people in the south fight for there KIAS Samsungs ect and if it is worth it to them they will be successful. If not someone eles will build cars and computers.
South Korea can win, the North has a larger Army, but this is their ground fight I agree. I DO think we should provide naval and air support. We could fly stealth bombers all over that little area all day and night and give them a nice shock and awe.
-------------------- It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so. Posts: 6949 | Registered: Apr 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by CashCowMoo: Ok guys, so what should we do? Pretend it never happened? Give a public "condemnation" to North Korea? You do realize this will not go away.
You know what I would do? I would provide an equal response with interest. If I was South Korea's President...
Aye Capt'n, there's the rub. Not if I were Obama. Not if I were a good patriotic American. If I was South Korea's President...
We ain't the ones who will have our families trying to stay alive inside the strike zone once the metal starts flying.
I think it will eventually be war (might even be better for it to happen sooner rather than later) but it is up to South Korea to decide when it is South Korea getting hit.
If I were Obama though I'd be telling the boys in the war room to start organizing supply lines and updating the available resources list. Just in case SK follows through.
-------------------- No longer eligible for government service due to lack of tax issues. Posts: 5178 | From: Up North | Registered: Dec 2005
| IP: Logged |
(a) Army. South Korea has a moderately large standing Army with strength of 633,000, divided into 22 divisions, which are again divided into 65 brigades. The army is currently over extended protecting key installations and facilities from DPRK SOF attacks. The Republic of Korea government remains supportive of the international community and US interests in eliminating the threat of attack by DPRK military forces, but South Korea is unable to adequately protect itself from attack by DPRK military forces. The South Korean Military High Command uses its Twelve and Seventeen Corps, and other home defense units, to protect key governmental installations, local infrastructure, and personnel throughout the country. Its Field Armies are conducting a long-running operations along the MDL. The Special Operation Command, by direction of the South Korean Government, is equipped to provide limited assistance to US military operations.
(b) Air Force. The Air Force is fully committed to be integrated into the ACC air campaign and maintain a joint headquarters with the ACC Commander.
(c) Navy. The Navy has three fleets. One on the Yellow sea side, southern Pacific coast area, and one on the sea of Japan side. All are heavily involved in coastal patrols. Their primary mission is to interdict the DPRK’s SOF insertion operations in support of its military forces. Seas and air insertion are the principal means the DPRK attempt to supply its forces. Its Naval Infantry brigade, in conjunction with the South Korean Army, is being used to safeguard ports on both coasts and along the inland waterways.
(d) Special Operations Forces. The Republic of South Korea has eight brigades of special operations forces, which typically work closely with the National Police and other special forces elements of the CFC in combat operations. It is well equipped and trained in small unit jungle operations and long range surveillance.
(4) The following commands and agencies will support operations as indicated.
(a) Department of State (DOS)
1. Obtain use of foreign bases, over flight rights, and transit rights, as required, and establish Status of Forces Agreements (SOFA) in the Joint Operations Area.
2. Seek political advocacy of other nations in the region to effect assistance in combating military forces.
3. Initiate political and diplomatic activity to gain international support-including the United Nations and the South East Asia Treaty Organization (SEATO) for economic sanctions and possible military support.
(g) Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA). Provide strategic and operational intelligence on the REPUBLIC of South Korea and border nations concerning guerrilla activities and force structure. (h) National Security Agency (NSA). Provide SIGINT support.
(i) Joint Deployment Community (JDC). Provide logistics planning, eployment planning, and execution.
(j) United States Agency for International Development (USAID). Coordinate activities with deployed US forces and support as directed by US Ambassador or Deputy Chief of Mission, REPUBLIC of South Korea.
(k) United States Information Agency (USIA). Influence world and regional public attitudes about US foreign policy objectives in the REPUBLIC OF South Korea.
(l) Department of Justice (DOJ). Coordinate disposition of international legal issues and provide advisory assistance surrounding JTF Korea’s mission requirements in the REPUBLIC of South Korea. (m) United States Drug Enforcement Administration (USDEA). Provide liaison and intelligence based on contacts in the REPUBLIC of South Korea and throughout the southeast asia region.
(n) Joint Command and Control Warfare Center (JC2WC). Provide planning, forces, and assessment.
f. Assumptions
(1) Governments of United Nations members will assist South Korea Military forces in restoration of MDL and South Korea areas controlled by the DPRK ‘s military forces.
(2) South Korea Military forces will not be able to secure key installations, facilities, APODs/SPODs, and protect American citizens.
(3) DPRK elements inside South Korea will continue their support of terrorism and assination of key public officials.
(4) Nations outside the region will not intervene either for or against South Korea with their own armed forces.
(5) US air forces will be able to establish and maintain air supremacy in the Joint Operations Area.
(6) The South Korea Government can provide only limited host nation support.
(7) The degree of mobilization assumed to support this OPLAN: Presidential Selective Reserve Call-Up (PSRC).
-------------------- It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so. Posts: 6949 | Registered: Apr 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
This newly renovated enrichment plant could be taken out with a bunker buster/cruise missle. Then we could say we have no idea what they are talking about, lol.
-------------------- It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so. Posts: 6949 | Registered: Apr 2004
| IP: Logged |
I dont have the answer to that Pagan. Not like I want the war, but sooner or later North Korea is going to use nukes once they are pushed to the wall. Did you see the report that just came out on how much mroe advanced their systems are than this administration thought? It is so sophisticated they said it is impossible for North Korea to NOT have outside help. Probably China.
China should do something quick, but they dont care. They just sit on what they got and laugh at us. Obama seems to have no problem spending money we dont have, so he should have no problem spending some money on Tomahawks to lob over.
Im not saying a full scale counter attack, but if they poke us and the world sees it, then we poke them. It is time the threat from this country is dealt with before they kill millions. Millions are starving over there, its demonic how oppressive the North Korean government is.
Nukes arent the real threat either, its bio and chemo weapons. I always was within a minutes run to my chemo suit and gas mask. We did a lot of biological warfare training because of the stockpiles the north has. They can lob those things all night on top of artillery rounds and gas the hell out of seoul.
Once evidence of any nuclear, bio, or chemo weapon being used by them we need to tactical nuke that country. Wipe out key target areas. I think if the bulk of the regime is killed then the military will crumble quickly and not resist.
They have all been brainwashed so they might still keep fighting, but those who surrendered would be brought possibly to the south and would see a whole new world.
Worst case scenario is pretty much the end of the world. A war starts on the Korean peninsula and we get sucked in. Then, Iran says...perfect timing and starts prepping for an attack on Israel and Israel strikes Iran first. We are stuck in the middle with 50,000 in Iraq. taliban who see a weakness begin rising up in earnest all over Afghanistan and it starts getting real messy. Then, the draft is brought up and all able bodied men and women are looked over for the draft.
Me? Well I would volunteer and go back into the Infantry since that is what I did and I am familiar with Korea so I would ask to go there. Bring my Bible with me too because thats the kind of strength one would need to make it through it all.
Then again....nothing could happen and we go back to business as usual for another 6 months or so before North Korea does it all over again and more people die and nothing happens. Pathetic!
_________________________________________________
We better know where we are going to get the money to finance another war before we get involved, especially these days and the way we fight them.
Many countries love to see us flexing our muscles year after year going from war to war, it erodes our nation as a whole.
Always one more place to spend our kids and grandkids money without really gaining anything.
When is it really necessary to get our troops involved?
Not sure any of us really know anymore.
We have been sold a bill of goods since the first round in Korea and pretty much every war since.
Pagan brought out a good point and The Bigfoot followed up, as have many others many times over on this site through the years.
You said you would volunteer and take your Bible.
Unfortunately they have their faith to, whether it be some sort of bible or just faith in their leaders or their religion.
If i remember correctly you did not like the idea when you were headed to Iraq for combat or when you were there, correct me if i remember that wrong.
Just remember it's not just the immidiate war we pay on, it all the disabilities that we have encountered from the wars that is costing us and our families dearly, not only in money.
Lets make sure our veterans are given a fair break first in the majority of disability claims, settle them quickly, then lets talk war.
Fat chance that would happen, we can't afford the war disabilities already, without adding new ones.
It's kind of like having sex, you better think about the consequences of doing so before you decide to do it, not that it happens in sex or war very often.
And i mean really think with our brains not our muscle.
posted
We have been thinking with our brains for how many years on North Korea? Im just saying sooner or later something has to happen. Read some news today that Obama called on CHINA to step up pressure on NK. We go to China to beg, and then try to tell them what to do in their neighborhood? I guess the U.N. "security council" held "talks" recently about this event.
I know we need to regroup after all this mess we are in now before we move on. South Korea will ultimately be the one who has to do this. Japan, and the U.S. can provide logistical support.
dont forget, their nuclear capabilities are growing, and then what? They are crazy enough to launch it. Then what? what is the excuse then for not doing anything after it is too late?
-------------------- It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so. Posts: 6949 | Registered: Apr 2004
| IP: Logged |
"I know we need to regroup after all this mess we are in now before we move on. South Korea will ultimately be the one who has to do this. Japan, and the U.S. can provide logistical support."
_________________________________________________
Do you really think that we don't already supply logistic support to SK?
But watch out when you ask for a lot of logistic support.
We have been there done that before, pretty soon we have ground troops and it becomes our fight.
I would have a real tough time believing that we don't have our own plants in many countries around the world like Iran, NK etc. just a guess tough.
posted
Hey you know what, all of you that keep on saying this is not our problem and yet you support obama need to check it. Obama went around the world giving speeches about global citizenship and everyone was crying, waving hands, and cheering for him. You sheep voted for it, so dont try to act like he never addressed global linking.
So we need NK to submit to the greater good, and to listen to obamas plan. We must obey obama, because GW, fox news, and sarah palin are destroying the planet with the big evil oil companies with wall street. we must not be tough on iran because they need an olive branch. we must make every excuse possible to be weak, because we can not afford strength, but we can afford stimulus and health care.
-------------------- It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so. Posts: 6949 | Registered: Apr 2004
| IP: Logged |
OK, i reviewed it, what part of what Obama actually said do you disagree with? I never heard him say the words "New World Order" eiterh, that was in the propagnadists part of the peice.
this is a perfect example of what Propaganda is cash...
it's just like the Dems slogan - "The GOP health care plan- die quickly"
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Of course it has some form of propaganda with it glass. it was more entertainment than anything, but I dont like the term global citizenship. I guess you are ok with all that.
i understand what he is talking about, working together for the greater good, but cmon its entertaining all the effects.
-------------------- It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so. Posts: 6949 | Registered: Apr 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
IMHO just stay out of any war any where. Our system is crumbling,plus Eourpe is in terrible shape.
I think we are goingto need all the spare cash that this country can muster and more.
No matter what happens to S.K. we will still be doing business with them look at Viet Nam look at Germany and most of all look at Japan All sworn enemies at one time and now we have Business dealings with them and invest heavy in thoes countries.
Take a look at Great Britian hated by all her ex colonies. Only for a few years she does business with all of them even the Republic of Ireland who swore they would not have anything to do with England.So what I am saying is you don't have to go to war we should stay out.
-------------------- Wise men learn more from fools than fools from the wise. Posts: 3827 | From: beautiful California | Registered: Sep 2008
| IP: Logged |
posted
I understand your point of view Ray, but you and everyone else listen up....sooner or later being passive with a tyrant as demonic as he is will sooner or later have people saying: "why didnt we do something to prevent this?"
Before everyone puts words in my mouth like they usually do in order to make their own argument sound better...I am not saying war is the only answer. It may however be the only solution of which I would not like to see. I think the best way is an internal revolution through the higher ranks of kim jong ils "dynasty", but the probability of that happening is very slim.
In 2010 North Korea tested nuclear weapons, sunk a SK ship killing sailors, shelled a SK island with artillery, a more advanced nuclear processing facility than we had known of, and a list of many other things. Yet we sit here and talk about "oh we need to think with our brains". People are dying, the U.S. is getting punked, and we are allowing a psychotic leader to amass a nuclear stockpile on top of the chemical and biological stockpile he has already. Not to mention the extremely disturbing human rights issues.
Now we find out that North Korea through the wikileaks has been arming Iran.
We sure have become weak from our WWII years. We should have stormed afghan instead of dividing our military and operations into Iraq. Before any of you say "oh but cash that is your GW bush who did that" yes...yes I know who started the iraq war so save your breath on pointing out the obvious.
We partially fight wars I guess now. Back in the day it was all about winning. If there ever were to be a good preemptive strike it would be north korea, not iraq.
Wikileaks documents: N. Korea sold missiles to al-Qaeda, Taliban
So keep on being passive on this, its only going to get worse. Get all the troops out of Iraq...like promised instead of talking about it too.
-------------------- It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so. Posts: 6949 | Registered: Apr 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
global citizenship. I guess you are ok with all that.
LOL... that is inevitable as time goes on... the question is will we hre int he USA be the ones that DICTATE what rights are attached to Global Citizenship isn't it?
you want to beleive that the USA could stand against a colaboration of the EU, Russkies, and China? never happen, hopefully we would be the ones to pull them all together and that was not happening under the New American Century BS ...
the goal has to be for US to be the ones to DICTATE what the world Constitution says...
if Space Aliens showed up tomorrow? YOU would be World Citizen within minutes, we all would if we survive it as Free people
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
I think right now what is more dangerous to the US is not North Korea, but the new leaks.
check out the drudge report today.
-------------------- It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so. Posts: 6949 | Registered: Apr 2004
| IP: Logged |
"I understand your point of view Ray, but you and everyone else listen up....sooner or later being passive with a tyrant as demonic as he is will sooner or later have people saying: "why didnt we do something to prevent this?"
Before everyone puts words in my mouth like they usually do in order to make their own argument sound better...I am not saying war is the only answer. It may however be the only solution of which I would not like to see. I think the best way is an internal revolution through the higher ranks of kim jong ils "dynasty", but the probability of that happening is very slim.
In 2010 North Korea tested nuclear weapons, sunk a SK ship killing sailors, shelled a SK island with artillery, a more advanced nuclear processing facility than we had known of, and a list of many other things. Yet we sit here and talk about "oh we need to think with our brains". People are dying, the U.S. is getting punked, and we are allowing a psychotic leader to amass a nuclear stockpile on top of the chemical and biological stockpile he has already. Not to mention the extremely disturbing human rights issues.
Now we find out that North Korea through the wikileaks has been arming Iran.
We sure have become weak from our WWII years. We should have stormed afghan instead of dividing our military and operations into Iraq. Before any of you say "oh but cash that is your GW bush who did that" yes...yes I know who started the iraq war so save your breath on pointing out the obvious.
We partially fight wars I guess now. Back in the day it was all about winning. If there ever were to be a good preemptive strike it would be north korea, not iraq."
_________________________________________________
When should we act on any nations aggression?
Under your theory we would be deep in it all the time.
Your to young to remember the 50's-60's.
What about Russia, Bay Of Pigs etc, China, Cuba the list is so long there would be no world left under your criteria for attacking.
Are we suppose to prevent the Middle East etc. hundreds of years of conflict and human right issues.
We can try through diplomacy and some cash, a lot cheaper than war.
Many of the issues are over religion.
Where do we start when do we stop on conflicts and human right issues, as far as war is concerned?
How about getting our stuff straight before we head in all directions, that would be a nice starting point.
Although that might be much harder than going everwhere else.
What has happened since WWII, lets see Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghan.
I remember talking to soldiers that had served in the Korean War, it was no treat in the 50's.
Not a lot different than Vietnam as they described it, although the temps were a lot more dramatic.
We seem to get closer in Korea to starting it all over again.
I cannot imagine where we will get the money or men to fight, nightmare on elmstreet and NK and others know, we seem to be the last to realize this.
Even the war games going on are super expensive, in a time when we could use the money elsewhere.
Better make sure it's necessary what were are doing, because below is the consequence we must pay.
posted
We will have consequences I know, and yes I know I am not old enough to remember WW2 or Korean war but I am very familiar with the details passed down through my own unit's lineage and historical studies.
Let SK handle as much as they can and then go from there.
-------------------- It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so. Posts: 6949 | Registered: Apr 2004
| IP: Logged |
we can level Iran and N Korea both on the same day.. the whole countries..(at least all of their roads, major industry and power production facilities.. sure it's just airstrikes, but the Iraqi's are still not back to full function of the stuff took out in shock and awe are they?
The main reason i say China should be stepping in to deal with N Korea (instead of US) is that they are right there, and shooting between US and South and North Korea will affect their trade with everybody... China seems to me to have the most to lose after South Korea...
not to mention that we would get good look at what they have and how they operate..
see my point? we COULD watch them like they been watching US... it's cheaper too
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
| IP: Logged |
"We will have consequences I know, and yes I know I am not old enough to remember WW2 or Korean war but I am very familiar with the details passed down through my own unit's lineage and historical studies."
_________________________________________________
Unfortunately after this many years a lot is lost even in historical studies, which can be swayed.
When these guys talked of Korea it sounded like it sucked, of course these guys were not the generals.
Lets face it, when you have a grunt telling a grunt in the field, there is no rosing it up!
It's usually pretty easy to understand and real direct.
posted
Cash so I guess you are saying if S.K. does not feel there country is worth fighting for then we should. You might think this is strange but there problems are there problems . And what makes you think our country is not protected?
-------------------- Wise men learn more from fools than fools from the wise. Posts: 3827 | From: beautiful California | Registered: Sep 2008
| IP: Logged |
-------------------- It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so. Posts: 6949 | Registered: Apr 2004
| IP: Logged |
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
Printer-friendly view of this topic
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
