posted
In the course of watching the news today.....I heard about North Korea saying that they intended to weaponize the remainder of their Plutonium if the U.S. or U.N tries a blockade...
Iran appears to have just had an election that was horse defficate......
Israel is our biggest ally in the region.....and hated by everyone else.....
The populace here at home is becoming more and more unsettles with regards to the government's "new role" in business....
Mexico is heading towards turmoil.....
venezuela hates the U.S......
Kind of looks like an emergence of the U.S.S.R.
Glass,
You and I have already agreed that our ability (as a nation...to wage war....has been decimated)
Is anyone else wondering what the hell happens from here?
How fast does it happen?
What is the inevitable result?
I ask these questions for two reasons: 1: I think that they are valid 2: I wonder if every generation feels the way I do...or if mine is warranted by circumstance
-------------------- "The greatest argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter." (WC)
IP: Logged |
Obama and Hillary are just going to keep on trying the impossible. You cant negotiation with Iran or North Korea. North Korea today even said that they are ready for nuke war:
Sooner or later something is going to happen, and it will be against us first. Then after blaming Bush or "the prior 8 years" for everything they will be FORCED to act with strength. Not because they want to, but because the American people will demand it.
Lockman is right, then we will go around the world apologizing. I dont want Obama apologizing on my behalf.
Sorry to see the Mets get blown away by the Yankees Lockman. Im not a fan of either but wow talk about a loss today.
-------------------- It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so.
IP: Logged |
posted
Not sure if you were addressing me.....and your right they do not pose an immediate threat....unless they are willing to sell a bomb to the types that would deliver it in person.
I think the immediate danger that N. Korea poses is more towards S. Korea and Japan.....My history ain't what it should be; but, don't we have an alliance stemming back from WWII to come the aid of Japan (could be wrong but I was thinking that Japan pretty much did away with any real military as a condition of surrender)?....could be wrong.
As far as what to do with them.....that is the question. I have to say that I am not sure....I am not a strategist.....but it will have to involve China.
I would try to leverage the wealth China is raking in from the U.S. into an agreement of Solidarity on the military front. Try to get them to stand with their biggest customer in dealings with N. Korea and I would play that to the hilt......if they refuse....I would ask as a consilation that they reign N. Korea in....without U.S. involvement.....Next you would ask China sit by and let the U.S. deal with the issue unfettered. If that is refused then it gets more complicated.....
At this point you cut off all trade relations with China. They will probably nationalize all American assets on their soil and we will reciprocate.....we head into another cold war....one that we are ill equipped for at the moment. However, N. Korea will then be stifled by China as both super powers try to avoid a hot war. With trade to China cutoff and demand still here at home.....our industrial engines re-crank and we start the race having given up a head start.
-------------------- "The greatest argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter." (WC)
IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by glassman: i am curious what you think we should do about N Korea..
it sounds like you are advocating nuking them since nothing else will work.
they are not a real problem to USA, they are a real problem to China and Russia, just look at a map.
I agree. What moocow do you want? You said you don't want war, yet you said the US needs to flex it's muscle. In case your clueless, there is little US muscle left to flex. It's all sitting in Iraq and Afghanistan. Wake up bro and post a solution. Your constant diatribes against the US are disgusting. As they say,' get up or get out!"
-------------------- It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious.
IP: Logged |
posted
unless they are willing to sell a bomb to the types that would deliver it in person.
we just got a UN resolution allowing US to stop any N Korean ship on the high seas...
that's actually a very big thing to do and we will have help from Japan and S Korea as well as others...
I would try to leverage the wealth China is raking in from the U.S. into an agreement of Solidarity on the military front.
i would love to see US do that, now try to find me ANY (just one would be a start) politicians willing to bring that to the table. there ain't none, and Daddy Bush and Bill Clinton would both be in opposition.
At this point you cut off all trade relations with China. They will probably nationalize all American assets on their soil and we will reciprocate.....we head into another cold war....one that we are ill equipped for at the moment. However, N. Korea will then be stifled by China as both super powers try to avoid a hot war. With trade to China cutoff and demand still here at home.....our industrial engines re-crank and we start the race having given up a head start.
cutting off all trade is drastic, but i wouldn't mind drastic. we'd be better off in five years. allot better off.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
IP: Logged |
posted
Well we seem to be kind of in sync on most of this....
Just wondering about the U.N. resolution....? Do you think that N.Korea will consider us actually hindering one of their vessels an act of war?
See....I am of the mind that this type of resolution heightens tensions.....if we were to stop and/or seize a N.Korea vessel.....they are forced to respond or be viewed as weak in the eyes of the world......the total opposite of what they want. I think if that happens; you run the risk of having them turn their hostility south.....
I am not pretending to know any answers....just trying to think about cause and effect.....
What do you do if your N. Korea?
-------------------- "The greatest argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter." (WC)
IP: Logged |
posted
Do you think that N.Korea will consider us actually hindering one of their vessels an act of war?
yep i sure do, so what? they are posturing.
keep in mind that having troops ready to fight (like N Korea does) would get them thru the first month of a fighting war, they can't even feed all their civilians tho. the whole country would quickly become compltely dependant on China.
once again we get back the the issue of them being China's problem....
i don't think China is willing to reverse what progress they have made in trade with the rest of the world.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
IP: Logged |
So then we are back to how do you deal with a "supposed" nuclear power that appears to be crazy enough to use it......I realize that it seems impossible that any state in todays world would resort to it but......Kim Jong Ill (no idea if I spelled that right) appears crazier than a termite in a tin ****house......
I know at some point you have to call him out and see if it is really a bluff....that is some pretty high stakes poker....and I am a poker player. Dont think he can hit the U.S. but he could hit Japan...so we hit him.....so China....?????
-------------------- "The greatest argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter." (WC)
IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by glassman: i am curious what you think we should do about N Korea..
it sounds like you are advocating nuking them since nothing else will work.
they are not a real problem to USA, they are a real problem to China and Russia, just look at a map.
I agree. What moocow do you want? You said you don't want war, yet you said the US needs to flex it's muscle. In case your clueless, there is little US muscle left to flex. It's all sitting in Iraq and Afghanistan. Wake up bro and post a solution. Your constant diatribes against the US are disgusting. As they say,' get up or get out!"
Oh we have muscle you just think it is all tied up in those two countries. What bothers me is this nut job is detonating nukes and shooting missles to try to get attention and nobody is doing a damn thing about it. You just dont ignore this problem and it goes away, and you sure as hell dont do what Bill Clinton did by giving them crap and having them stab us in the back. Seems like the rewarding provocation has been our policy for some time now.
So what would YOU do Pagan? Go ask the UN to do something? Should we just wait for a missle to hit Alaska or Hawaii, blame Bush for it, and go apologize to the world for being American?
Hell yeah we need to flex some muscle, we got a lot of Naval vessels that can be very intimidating at just the sight. We also have a lot of aircraft to move to the area if need be. Iraq sucked up a lot of that in the beginning but its not the same anymore there.
Is North Korea REALLY a threat to the US? Many say no, I say...how does anyone really know? The man is INSANE. This wont just go away if we ignore it. We just need to put him in check until we can establish something from the inside out. Looks like everyone just wants to do too little too late.
Im assuming Pagan that you are not familiar with Flexible Deterrent Options, or FDO's. Im talking about giving North Korea one helluva show of force. The presence of powerful and capable forces signals to a potential aggressor the political will to use force. Maybe if Obama would have stuck to his promise to get elected of drawing down troops in Iraq one brigade per month and ending the war we would have more available land sources.
North Korea has the resources to start a war, but they dont have the resources to sustain one. Military deterrent FDO's are intended to be used in concert with diplomatic, economic, and political options.
Diplomatic options obviously do NOT work with North Korea. We have beaten that door down enough. Obviously any economic options dont work and only make the country worse. Political options are off the table unless we give them free items or materials in exchange for being lied to.
We have a the George Washington carrier battle group in Japan as well as other forces (http://gw.ffc.navy.mil/) . We can also deploy a naval Surface Action Group close to North Korean waters. Conduct stealth flyovers in the area. Increase training at the KTC (Korean Training Center) and bring additional forces there. Update alert statuses. I have actually personally trained at KTC when I was stationed in Korea. So basically initiating shows of force. Heavily increase PSYOPS from South Korea into the north. There is a whole bunch of things we can do to flex muscle, and all I get from you is we are bogged down in Iraq and Afghanistan so we cant? Please.
We have pre-set force packages for the worst case scenario should major theater war break out.
-------------------- It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so.
IP: Logged |
posted
We have pre-set force packages for the worst case scenario should major theater war break out.
indeed we do.
but i have to keep pointing to China. what does China gain by allowing their little pitbull on a chain to snarl and growl and bark?
Kim Jong Il answers to them. China has publicly "admonished" them. China is their largest aid provider and also sells them oil at below market prices.... oddly enough? South Korea is their second largest aid provider.
suppose China is publicly admonishing Kim Jong, but privately encouraging him? what might that accomplish?
(i warn't jes jarshin' when i said i were into conspiracy theories)
as you say? we are not overstretched to conduct limited actions (here's the important part)- YET..
but sending a dozen tomahawks into N Korea just to rattle thier cage ( as Dale Earnhardt Sr used to say) would put US in an odd position with China, S Korea and possibly Japan too..
S Korea sends them aid for a reason, and provoking N Korea to attack Japan would be pretty bad if we allowed just one missile to get thru to them. Japan would blame US for instigating it unless they signed off on it first, and even then you can only control public sentiment so much.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by jordanreed: saddam is insane,,osama is insane,,kim jong is insane...hmmm...doesnt that seem insane to call all these people insane?
No, are you saying that Kim Jong Il and Osama Bin Laden are sane individuals? No wonder you post the things you do.
IP: Logged |
posted
suppose China is publicly admonishing Kim Jong, but privately encouraging him? what might that accomplish
I find it hard to believe they would do that due to the fact that they border N Korea but then who knows. They have to know that if the US nukes Korea that it will force China to go to war with the US. JUST DOESN'T MAKE SENCE
-------------------- You never really grow up you just learn how to act in public.
IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by jordanreed: saddam is insane,,osama is insane,,kim jong is insane...hmmm...doesnt that seem insane to call all these people insane?
No, are you saying that Kim Jong Il and Osama Bin Laden are sane individuals? No wonder you post the things you do.
whatever that means...
its easy to get people on your side..just call the opposing view insane....typical republican ploy, doesnt surprise me, cow...you constantly follow the party line blather..
quote:Originally posted by jordanreed: saddam is insane,,osama is insane,,kim jong is insane...hmmm...doesnt that seem insane to call all these people insane?
No, are you saying that Kim Jong Il and Osama Bin Laden are sane individuals? No wonder you post the things you do.
whatever that means...
its easy to get people on your side..just call the opposing view insane....typical republican ploy, doesnt surprise me, cow...you constantly follow the party line blather..
Do you think Kim Jong IL is sane? He sure looks and acts like he's a bit goofy. He's also smart like a fox.
-------------------- Let's Go METS!!!
IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by jordanreed: saddam is insane,,osama is insane,,kim jong is insane...hmmm...doesnt that seem insane to call all these people insane?
No, are you saying that Kim Jong Il and Osama Bin Laden are sane individuals? No wonder you post the things you do.
whatever that means...
its easy to get people on your side..just call the opposing view insane....typical republican ploy, doesnt surprise me, cow...you constantly follow the party line blather..
Do you think Kim Jong IL is sane? He sure looks and acts like he's a bit goofy. He's also smart like a fox.
If you defend Kim Jong Il, and tell someone who thinks he is insane that he is just following Republican Party lines......well thats just stupid.
If Kim Jong Il is not a mad mad, then WHO is? They eat dirt they are so poor, they have hard labor camps, I mean heck just look at this video:
quote:Originally posted by jordanreed: saddam is insane,,osama is insane,,kim jong is insane...hmmm...doesnt that seem insane to call all these people insane?
I am starting to think that maybe there is room for one more name on this list...(kind of kidding).....
C'mon....do you truly not believe that these people fit the contemporary definition of insanity....(not talking clinical...the whole knowing right from wrong thing).....but compared to the mainstream; those three guys are completely out of their minds.
It is not saying they are not smart.....Hitler was smart;but he was still as f'ed up as a "soup sandwich."
-------------------- "The greatest argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter." (WC)
IP: Logged |
posted
What is an insane reaction unless you are part of the culture or you are there you really don't know. Is there reaction in Iran any more insane than tarring and feathering a tory or throwing a few ship loads of tea in the bay while dressed like native Americans. These acts were done over disputes of issues.
-------------------- Wise men learn more from fools than fools from the wise.
IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by jordanreed: saddam is insane,,osama is insane,,kim jong is insane...hmmm...doesnt that seem insane to call all these people insane?
I am starting to think that maybe there is room for one more name on this list...(kind of kidding).....
C'mon....do you truly not believe that these people fit the contemporary definition of insanity....(not talking clinical...the whole knowing right from wrong thing).....but compared to the mainstream; those three guys are completely out of their minds.
It is not saying they are not smart.....Hitler was smart;but he was still as f'ed up as a "soup sandwich."
dont cross the line ,my man...
because they dont adhere to your way of thinking does not make them insane..
posted
Trying to keep everything light-hearted.....
You do not conform to my way of thinking and I would not call you insane for a difference of opinions..(until it appears that you defend their lunacy)...but two of the persons on that list have threatened (be it valid or not) to use any and every weapon at their disposal against the U.S. if this happens....or if that happens....
Bin Laden,.... I can't think of a direct threat that would cause a nuclear holocaust (not saying that there is not one).......However, based on his rantings and calls for "jihad"; I have little doubt that he feels the same as the other two.
I have know idea if you are an American...for all I know you could be pissed of teenager from gofukoffastan......I will not argue with your politics cause your entitled to whatever you believe and you are welcome to confront me on any of my beliefs....but; exactly what line is it that I am supposed to be careful of crossing.....
If you are refering to an imaginary line where I think a person is insane for wishing harm on my family......a family that has never harmed them.....piss off.
I think that I understand the point that you were trying to make in earlier post regarding "tarring and Feathering" and even your reference of the "Boston Tea Party";......history is written by the victors.
What we consider to be patriots would be traitors in a another dimension.......if things had turned out differently?........that about right?
I use to focus on such things too.....then realized that if my "aunt" had nuts she would have been my "uncle."
"When IFS and BUTs are candy and nuts.....it will be Christmas everday."
Hey,....where did that line go?
-------------------- "The greatest argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter." (WC)
IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by jordanreed: The "line" you were getting close to crossing, was trying to be "funny" by, indirectly, calling me insane.
you are new , here, so I will cut you slack..
your subtleness doesnt escape me..
if I wanted to harm your family, doesnt make me insane..
I dont need to be lectured by your diatribe..
you were not trying to keep it lighthearted...you were attacking ..
I "get" your style..
you are welcome here and your posts offer up a tantalizing bit of info,,, but ....
Okay....truce, on this one.....and I did confuse part your post with part of someone else's.....my bad and I apologise for that.....and I must have misinterpreted the "line" reference.
-------------------- "The greatest argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter." (WC)
IP: Logged |
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
Printer-friendly view of this topic
![[BadOne]](graemlins/headbash.gif)
