posted
Right-wing hate reacts to murder of Dr. George Tiller. Earlier today, George Tiller, a Kansas doctor who administered abortions, was murdered “as he stood in the foyer of his church.” Tiller, who frequently wore a bullet-proof vest for protection, was shot and killed by an assailant, purported to be a 51-year old man named Scott Roeder. The killing comes only two months after he was found not guilty of performing illegal late-term abortions. People For The American Way’s right-wing watch **** notes that “those who had long targeted and demonized Tiller were quick to issue statements,” including this one by Randall Terry which essentially blamed Tiller for his own murder:
George Tiller was a mass-murderer. We grieve for him that he did not have time to properly prepare his soul to face God. I am more concerned that the Obama Administration will use Tiller’s killing to intimidate pro-lifers into surrendering our most effective rhetoric and actions. Abortion is still murder. And we still must call abortion by its proper name; murder.
Those men and women who slaughter the unborn are murderers according to the Law of God. We must continue to expose them in our communities and peacefully protest them at their offices and homes, and yes, even their churches.
Some pro-life groups have been quick to denounce the murder. Attorney General Eric Holder said “the murder of Doctor George Tiller is an abhorrent act of violence. … As a precautionary measure, we will also take appropriate steps to help prevent any related acts of violence from occurring.” And President Obama released a statement expressing his shock and outrage. “However profound our differences as Americans over difficult issues such as abortion, they cannot be resolved by heinous acts of violence,” Obama said.
UpdateAnother hate-filled statement:
“He died the way he lived.” “His was a bloody death.” Rev Rusty Thomas, Operation Save America (OSA) Someone “chose” to end George Tiller’s life this morning, in his church.
John Amato, Andrew Sullivan, Amy Sullivan, and Gabriel Winant have more. UpdateTiller was reportedly the "fifth American doctor to be assassinated." Yglesias calls it "terrorism that works." He writes, "Every time you murder a doctor, you create a disincentive for other medical professionals to provide these services." UpdateMike Hendricks, writing in the KC Star's Prime Buzz ****, argues "the groups who spent decades fomenting hate toward" Tiller are "accomplices." "Hate. Not heated opposition. Not strong disagreement. But blind hatred."
-------------------- Wise men learn more from fools than fools from the wise.
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posted
Tiller did not deserve to be killed, he was just providing a service to the baby killing crowd.
It is interesting that we jail assisted suicide doctors but allow a late term baby to be born and left on the operating table to die.
Tiller saw a nitch in the abortion industry and exploited it. Some women don't know their going to have a baby until every late and we have to make sure they have a choice as to kill or not kill. Thumbs up or down.
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posted
if the good doctor is a killer, then he was a hired killer...shouldnt the woman who hired him be killed also? isnt she as guilty?...course, neither one is guilty of anything other than being law-abiding..
posted
What a way to weakly defend 60,000 babies being killed. This guy was a THIRD TERM abortion doctor....go google pictures of late term abortion and you tell me if it is right or wrong. Its sick. Its practically live birth abortion.
"Well its legal" is what they say and they are right. Thats fine....use the legal clause. Ill stick with the ETHICAL clause of it.
-------------------- It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so.
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posted
What the good doctor has done with his medidcal professions lifes work is 100% legal and settled as such in a court of law. His murder solves nothing. Taking the law into your own hands is a primitive and stupid way of getting your point across. Think of all these people that are prolife that inside feel this was the right thing to do to protect life I will bet you a lot of them supported the killing machine that has slaughterd hunderds of thousands of Iraqies hated because they are nonchristians. And figuring they are getting just what they deserve.
The Government by civil law has done a good job of keeping out of Religious affairs and kepping alive the spirt of the law that protects the right for anybody to freely practice there faith.
We in return are suppose to keep our faith out of civil law .
So when it comes to a subject like abortion you are allowed to follow your faith and not be forced to have the proceedure done on you or be exposed to it. I ask you what could be more fair.
-------------------- Wise men learn more from fools than fools from the wise.
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it's started again. this was the first murder of it's type in 10 years.
it's starting again because the "hope" that Bush and friends would stack the supreme court with people who would
activistically
reinterpet
the law into something these people consider more favorable has ended.
the fact is? late term abortions are horrible. however, there are many horrible things we have to do in life, and courageous people do them when they have to be done.
the facts do not support that this doctor murdered anybody, i'm sur[prised this guy didn't strap on a bomb and take out the whole church.
is that what's next?
people who encourage such insanity should think carefully about how they attempt to support their views in this matter.
here's something to consider. If you beleiv in a powerful loving God, don't you think that God is capable of defending pure souls without the help of a bunch of loonies? does that make a wee bit more sense than Jihad?
cuz that's the proper word for the pro-life movement in this mode.
that doctor saved lives and it's well-documented. murdering him in a church is about the stupidest thing anybody could come up with, it defiles everything.
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quote:Originally posted by raybond: What the good doctor has done with his medidcal professions lifes work is 100% legal and settled as such in a court of law. His murder solves nothing. Taking the law into your own hands is a primitive and stupid way of getting your point across. Think of all these people that are prolife that inside feel this was the right thing to do to protect life I will bet you a lot of them supported the killing machine that has slaughterd hunderds of thousands of Iraqies hated because they are nonchristians. And figuring they are getting just what they deserve.
The Government by civil law has done a good job of keeping out of Religious affairs and kepping alive the spirt of the law that protects the right for anybody to freely practice there faith.
We in return are suppose to keep our faith out of civil law .
So when it comes to a subject like abortion you are allowed to follow your faith and not be forced to have the proceedure done on you or be exposed to it. I ask you what could be more fair.
What's really crazy, is the "pro-life" folks are the ones that are doing the bombings and shootings. Pro-life? Please...they are domestic terrorists at best.
-------------------- It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious.
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posted
Dont try to say abortion is just a religious thing. It is an ethical matter. What I dont get is abortion doctors are DOCTORS. They know what they are doing, they know they are....stopping life. Thats what is really sick about it all.
Nobody who is pro "choice" likes to acknowledge how abortions are carried out. There is a reason Tiller was 1 of only 3 late term doctors in the country. It is barbaric and inhumane.
-------------------- It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so.
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posted
cash, doctors know more than me and you, the fact that he was assassinated might have something to do with why there are so few. the fact that there were only 3 shows that it's just not done very often.
i have looked pretty hard to find some real statistics to try to understand how many are performed.
couldn't find any, found plenty of pictures and other stuff designed specifically to upset people.
i'm not thinking the guy was some hero, i'm thinking that doctors are the only people that have the true ability to decide if what they are doing is right or not. The patients still have to face their Judgement day Alone, just like the Doctors do. we all face that naked and alone.
this political controversey is about getting votes. who are you and i to decide if a woman should live or die because she's pregnat? that's the "sticking point" we would have laws frobidding it if we simply put the "life of the mother" in the laws..
keeping the political controversey alive makes the freaks come out.
we could settle this with a reasonable law: set the term limit at 20 weeks. include the "life of the mother" in the law and the debate is over to the satisfaction of about 60% of Americans.
everything we do in life is about making difficult decisions, some more difficult than others.
the answer here is to make sure fewer women choose abortion, not to force their choices on them. that's what freedom is about. it's like guns, those of us who own them and choose not use them unwisely should be allowed to continue to do so.. freedom means having the choioce and making the correct choice, not having our choices made for US.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: cash, doctors know more than me and you, the fact that he was assassinated might have something to do with why there are so few. the fact that there were only 3 shows that it's just not done very often.
i have looked pretty hard to find some real statistics to try to understand how many are performed.
couldn't find any, found plenty of pictures and other stuff designed specifically to upset people.
i'm not thinking the guy was some hero, i'm thinking that doctors are the only people that have the true ability to decide if what they are doing is right or not. The patients still have to face their Judgement day Alone, just like the Doctors do. we all face that naked and alone.
this political controversey is about getting votes. who are you and i to decide if a woman should live or die because she's pregnat? that's the "sticking point" we would have laws frobidding it if we simply put the "life of the mother" in the laws..
keeping the political controversey alive makes the freaks come out.
we could settle this with a reasonable law: set the term limit at 20 weeks. include the "life of the mother" in the law and the debate is over to the satisfaction of about 60% of Americans.
everything we do in life is about making difficult decisions, some more difficult than others.
the answer here is to make sure fewer women choose abortion, not to force their choices on them. that's what freedom is about. it's like guns, those of us who own them and choose not use them unwisely should be allowed to continue to do so.. freedom means having the choioce and making the correct choice, not having our choices made for US.
I dont buy that argument Glass. The whole freedom to choose. What are you choosing to do? End life? How is ending life a constitutional freedom to choose? I dont get that.
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: cash, doctors know more than me and you, the fact that he was assassinated might have something to do with why there are so few. the fact that there were only 3 shows that it's just not done very often.
i have looked pretty hard to find some real statistics to try to understand how many are performed.
couldn't find any, found plenty of pictures and other stuff designed specifically to upset people.
i'm not thinking the guy was some hero, i'm thinking that doctors are the only people that have the true ability to decide if what they are doing is right or not. The patients still have to face their Judgement day Alone, just like the Doctors do. we all face that naked and alone.
this political controversey is about getting votes. who are you and i to decide if a woman should live or die because she's pregnat? that's the "sticking point" we would have laws frobidding it if we simply put the "life of the mother" in the laws..
keeping the political controversey alive makes the freaks come out.
we could settle this with a reasonable law: set the term limit at 20 weeks. include the "life of the mother" in the law and the debate is over to the satisfaction of about 60% of Americans.
everything we do in life is about making difficult decisions, some more difficult than others.
the answer here is to make sure fewer women choose abortion, not to force their choices on them. that's what freedom is about. it's like guns, those of us who own them and choose not use them unwisely should be allowed to continue to do so.. freedom means having the choioce and making the correct choice, not having our choices made for US.
I dont buy that argument Glass. The whole freedom to choose. What are you choosing to do? End life? How is ending life a constitutional freedom to choose? I dont get that.
Ending a life? You mean like killing people and bombing clinics? If you truly are a vet, you ought to shamed of your retarded comments.
-------------------- It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious.
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: it's not my choice cash. not your choice either. and that is my point.
a term limit of 20 weeks is a reasonable limit.
and after that? "life of the mother" is choosing not to save the life of a mother and possibly child too.
Someone made a good point today I heard. The far left are calling this guy a terrorist who shot tiller, and that the pro life groups are domestic terrorists.
What about AYERS? He did numerous things with NO REGRET! It's another liberal double standard.
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There is a difference CCM... Ayers was a domestic terrorist who used violence to protest the Vietnam war. Some of his friends did die while making a nail bomb but other than that no one was ever killed by the bombs he planted.
Also, you are misquoting him.
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quote:Originally posted by The Bigfoot: There is a difference CCM... Ayers was a domestic terrorist who used violence to protest the Vietnam war. Some of his friends did die while making a nail bomb but other than that no one was ever killed by the bombs he planted.
Also, you are misquoting him.
I like how his behavior was minimalized. IF Ayers was a conservative and backed McCain...wow it would never end.
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I am a late starter to this argument. You and I have very similar values (it would appear); but a different approach.
The Doc should not have been killed....and I hope the the s.o.b. that did it gets hanged. That is not to say that hold any respect for Tiller; but the summation of ones life and work can not be contained in an article or obituary.
Glass is on point here....stupidty, lunacy, and terror serves only to eddify the opposing view.
We hold life...even unborn infant life to be sacred (pretty sure that is your view...mine as well)....but even here I am a hypocrite.....I would authorize any doctor at any time to do anything necessary to insure the life of my wife during a delivery......in short.....I would kill my child to do it......yes, I suppose that is a vey bizzarre confession.
Without knowing Tiller (and probably if I did); I would think that he is scum.....Nevertheless, nobody has the right to administer ultimate justice without a trial......unfortunately; our laws have given him what you and I think, are that very right. It is for that reason that I understand your passion; but it is the law.
Catch more flies with honey.......
I understand your argument......I know that your not advocating vigilantee justice.....but others will; and they will defeat your arguments with your own words.
-------------------- "The greatest argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter." (WC)
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the fact is? late term abortions are horrible. however, there are many horrible things we have to do in life, and courageous people do them when they have to be done.
Courageous? Are you refering to the good doctor who did horrible things or the gentleman who shot him?
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quote:Originally posted by Lockman: [QUOTE]Originally posted by glassman:
the fact is? late term abortions are horrible. however, there are many horrible things we have to do in life, and courageous people do them when they have to be done.
Courageous? Are you refering to the good doctor who did horrible things or the gentleman who shot him?
LOL! You have eliminated any doubt. You sir are an idiot!
-------------------- It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious.
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quote:Originally posted by Lockman: [QUOTE]Originally posted by glassman:
the fact is? late term abortions are horrible. however, there are many horrible things we have to do in life, and courageous people do them when they have to be done.
Courageous? Are you refering to the good doctor who did horrible things or the gentleman who shot him?
LOL! You have eliminated any doubt. You sir are an idiot!
So you feel a doctor performing late term abortions is courageous? It is you are an idiot.
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posted
So you feel a doctor performing late term abortions is courageous?
It is when people try to assassinate them, and several tried before this.
how many did he do that didn't save the mothers life?
you cannot answer that question any better than anybody else. it's all mythology.
we could have the law in writing and medical boards to review it, but no, that would end the political argument. that would mean that politicians would have to argue over something that actually matters.
the most critical issue is that God will pass judgement, but you and your type want to usurp Gods prerogative, that in and of itself is specifically mentioned in the Bible, while abortion is most definitely NOT.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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Courageous? Are you refering to the good doctor who did horrible things or the gentleman who shot him?
quote: So here are some facts:
Late-term abortions are very rare. About one percent of all abortions performed in the United States occur after 21 weeks. The third trimester begins at 24 weeks.
Late-term abortions are severely restricted by law.
In 1973, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that the constitutional right to privacy extends to the decision of a woman, in consultation with her physician, to terminate a pregnancy.
The Court also determined, however, that this right is not absolute and it must be balanced against the state's legitimate interest in protecting both the health of the pregnant woman and the developing human life. Therefore, according to Roe, the state's interest in protecting potential life becomes compelling at the point of fetal viability (when the fetus has the capacity for sustained survival outside the uterus). States are allowed to, and indeed have, severely restricted access to abortion in the third-trimester, except, as the Supreme Court has ruled, when necessary to preserve the woman's life or health. In subsequent cases, the Court made clear that viability is a medical determination, which varies with each pregnancy, and that it is the responsibility of the attending physician to make that determination.
As the Guttmacher Institute points out in a brief on this issue, the Supreme Court has held that:
* even after fetal viability, states may not prohibit abortions "necessary to preserve the life or health of the mother;" * "health" in this context includes both physical and mental health; * only the physician, in the course of evaluating the specific circumstances of an individual case, can define what constitutes "health" and when a fetus is viable; and * states cannot require additional physicians to confirm the physician's judgment that the woman's life or health is at risk.
What is viability?
Viability is a medical, not a legal definition.
As pointed out in another excellent brief by Planned Parenthood Affiliates of California:
A fetus is viable when it reaches an "anatomical threshold" when critical organs, such as the lungs and kidneys, can sustain independent life. Until the air sacs are mature enough to permit gases to pass into and out of the bloodstream, which is extremely unlikely until at least 23 weeks gestation (from last menstrual period), a fetus cannot be sustained even with a respirator, which can force air into the lungs but cannot pass gas from the lungs into the bloodstream.
The brief continues by underscoring that:
While medical advances have increased the survival of infants born between 24 and 28 weeks of gestation, the point of viability has moved little over the past decade; at the earliest, it remains at approximately 24 weeks, where it was when the Supreme Court decided Roe -- a fact acknowledged by the court in its recent decision in PLANNED PARENTHOOD OF SOUTHEASTERN PENNSYLVANIA V. CASEY. A study of infant survival by researchers at Case Western Reserve University Medical School found that the rate of survival for infants born before 25 weeks gestation has not improved appreciably in recent years.
Most states restrict late-term abortions.
The Guttmacher brief notes that:
* 37 states prohibit some abortions after a certain point in pregnancy. * 24 states initiate prohibitions at fetal viability. * 5 states initiate prohibitions in the third trimester. * 8 states initiate prohibitions after a certain number of weeks, generally 24.
The circumstances under which procedures are permitted after that point vary from state to state. For example:
* 29 states permit abortions to preserve the life or health of the woman; * 4 states permit abortions to save the life or health of the woman, but use a narrow definition of health; * 4 states permit abortions only to save the life of the woman.
Some states require the involvement of a second physician when a later-term abortion is performed. Nine states require that a second physician attend in order to treat a fetus if it is born alive. Ten states require that a second physician certify that the abortion is medically necessary.
Kansas law is strict on the issue of late-term abortions.
Kansas law requires that such procedures can only be performed after viability if two independent doctors agree that not to do so would put the mother at risk of irreparable harm by giving birth.
Did ya catch that last part folks??? Kansas law only allows late term abortions after two independent doctors agree that not doing so puts the mother at risk.
This guy was a life-saver not a death-dealer. A man who believed so strongly that what he was doing was for the good of mankind that he continued to do so even after being shot in both arms by Shelly Shannon in 1993.
In March 2009 the courts had given him a NOT GUILTY verdict confirming that he had not violated Kansas law by using a non-independent second doctor to substantiate the risks to the mother which is what set this NUTJOB- who was more interested in the sensationalism of having a cause than in real life- off.
That anyone is even trying to defend this man who committed cold blooded murder on a life saver in a house of God just floors me. Absolutely floors me. Talk about not dealing with reality...
I generally am very willing to let others have their own opinions even if I do not agree with them but you should be ashamed of yourself Lockman.
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darn BF you just ended the debate when it was getting good...
those darn facts always mess up a good emotional debate.
the GOP will run out of talking points at this rate.
there was physician recently charged over not having someone there to assist with the live birth of a child in Florida recently. as i recall the AMA and the courts threw him to the wolves, as they should...
that still didn't stop certain groups from trying to make it into a bigger case tho...
i would even be willing to debate whether 20 weeks isn't waiting too long... 16 weeks is plenty of time to make a decision, but i don't think that's going to settle any issues either...
going to the constituaional law issues? we have this issue of what constitutes a person. human life and "person" are two separate things...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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posted
Tiller’s accused killer claims that more anti-abortion violence is ‘planned around the country.’ This past weekend, abortion providers from across the country gathered in Wichita, Kan. to attend the funeral the of Dr. George Tiller, who was murdered last month. On the same weekend, the man accused of murdering Tiller told the AP that “similar violence was planned around the nation for as long as the procedure remained legal”:
Scott Roeder called The Associated Press from the Sedgwick County jail, where he’s being held on charges of first-degree murder and aggravated assault in the shooting of Dr. George Tiller one week ago.
“I know there are many other similar events planned around the country as long as abortion remains legal,” Roeder said. When asked by the AP what he meant and if he was referring to another shooting, he refused to elaborate further.
It wasn’t clear whether Roeder knew of any impending violence or whether he was simply seeking publicity for his cause. Law enforcement authorities including the Justice Department said they didn’t know whether the threat was credible.
The Justice Department told the AP that Roeder’s “threat was being taken seriously and additional protection had been ordered for abortion clinics.” Last week, Attorney General Eric Holder dispatched U.S. Marshalls to protect “appropriate people and facilities around the nation” in the wake of Tiller’s murder.
UpdateRoeder also complained about the “deplorable conditions” in his jail cell, complaining that it was freezing. “I started having a bad cough. I thought I was going to have pneumonia,” he said
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Roeder also complained about the “deplorable conditions” in his jail cell, complaining that it was freezing. “I started having a bad cough. I thought I was going to have pneumonia,” he said
sounds like he needs a doctor? how ironic huh?
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posted
"It wasn’t clear whether Roeder knew of any impending violence or whether he was simply seeking publicity for his cause. Law enforcement authorities including the Justice Department said they didn’t know whether the threat was credible."
A little water boarding may clear this up. Or is that only used on Muslim terrorists?
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quote:Originally posted by Browndog: "It wasn’t clear whether Roeder knew of any impending violence or whether he was simply seeking publicity for his cause. Law enforcement authorities including the Justice Department said they didn’t know whether the threat was credible."
A little water boarding may clear this up. Or is that only used on Muslim terrorists?
This doctor death is so beaten by MSNBC and NBC and others now. Nobody wants to cover the muslim terrorist murder of the two soldiers shot in front of the recruiting station in Arkansas. Where is the coverage of that? Its all clear as day now or should be at least.
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muslim terrorist murder of the two soldiers shot in front of the recruiting station in Arkansas
that "Muslim Terrorist"?
Abdul Hakim Mujahid Muhammad, 23, was ordered held without bail at a hearing Tuesday in Little Rock. He is charged in the death of Pvt. William Long, 23, of Conway, outside the Army Navy Career Center in Little Rock. Muhammad, previously known as Carlos Bledsoe a US citizen born in Tennessee, would be charged with first-degree murder, plus 15 counts of committing a terroristic act. Thomas said those counts result from the gunfire occurring near other people.
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: muslim terrorist murder of the two soldiers shot in front of the recruiting station in Arkansas
that "Muslim Terrorist"?
Abdul Hakim Mujahid Muhammad, 23, was ordered held without bail at a hearing Tuesday in Little Rock. He is charged in the death of Pvt. William Long, 23, of Conway, outside the Army Navy Career Center in Little Rock. Muhammad, previously known as Carlos Bledsoe a US citizen born in Tennessee, would be charged with first-degree murder, plus 15 counts of committing a terroristic act. Thomas said those counts result from the gunfire occurring near other people.
Yes I know glass that he is a US citizen. He is a muslim convert, and a domestic terrorist. The left is portraying pro lifers as some big domestic terrorist group, but they dont ever want to talk about the animal liberation front (ALF) or this muslim who shot up our soldiers in uniform who were doing hometown recruiting fresh out of basic.
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well, i haven't been watching MSNBC much lately, i think i've seen oblerman's show three times in the last year. CNN covered it pretty well and the gunman in Ark has been getting plenty of "local" notice here, but that's cuz i live only a few hours from Little Rock.
the guys up in NY that wanted to blow up synagogues got some airplay too..
i don't doubt olberman rants about anything politcial taht he can as often as he can, that's what i hear from him when i have listened..
i've even stopped listening to CNBC alot lately cuz i'm tired of hearing about politics on the financial news.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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Courageous? Are you refering to the good doctor who did horrible things or the gentleman who shot him?
quote: So here are some facts:
Late-term abortions are very rare. About one percent of all abortions performed in the United States occur after 21 weeks. The third trimester begins at 24 weeks.
Late-term abortions are severely restricted by law.
In 1973, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that the constitutional right to privacy extends to the decision of a woman, in consultation with her physician, to terminate a pregnancy.
The Court also determined, however, that this right is not absolute and it must be balanced against the state's legitimate interest in protecting both the health of the pregnant woman and the developing human life. Therefore, according to Roe, the state's interest in protecting potential life becomes compelling at the point of fetal viability (when the fetus has the capacity for sustained survival outside the uterus). States are allowed to, and indeed have, severely restricted access to abortion in the third-trimester, except, as the Supreme Court has ruled, when necessary to preserve the woman's life or health. In subsequent cases, the Court made clear that viability is a medical determination, which varies with each pregnancy, and that it is the responsibility of the attending physician to make that determination.
As the Guttmacher Institute points out in a brief on this issue, the Supreme Court has held that:
* even after fetal viability, states may not prohibit abortions "necessary to preserve the life or health of the mother;" * "health" in this context includes both physical and mental health; * only the physician, in the course of evaluating the specific circumstances of an individual case, can define what constitutes "health" and when a fetus is viable; and * states cannot require additional physicians to confirm the physician's judgment that the woman's life or health is at risk.
What is viability?
Viability is a medical, not a legal definition.
As pointed out in another excellent brief by Planned Parenthood Affiliates of California:
A fetus is viable when it reaches an "anatomical threshold" when critical organs, such as the lungs and kidneys, can sustain independent life. Until the air sacs are mature enough to permit gases to pass into and out of the bloodstream, which is extremely unlikely until at least 23 weeks gestation (from last menstrual period), a fetus cannot be sustained even with a respirator, which can force air into the lungs but cannot pass gas from the lungs into the bloodstream.
The brief continues by underscoring that:
While medical advances have increased the survival of infants born between 24 and 28 weeks of gestation, the point of viability has moved little over the past decade; at the earliest, it remains at approximately 24 weeks, where it was when the Supreme Court decided Roe -- a fact acknowledged by the court in its recent decision in PLANNED PARENTHOOD OF SOUTHEASTERN PENNSYLVANIA V. CASEY. A study of infant survival by researchers at Case Western Reserve University Medical School found that the rate of survival for infants born before 25 weeks gestation has not improved appreciably in recent years.
Most states restrict late-term abortions.
The Guttmacher brief notes that:
* 37 states prohibit some abortions after a certain point in pregnancy. * 24 states initiate prohibitions at fetal viability. * 5 states initiate prohibitions in the third trimester. * 8 states initiate prohibitions after a certain number of weeks, generally 24.
The circumstances under which procedures are permitted after that point vary from state to state. For example:
* 29 states permit abortions to preserve the life or health of the woman; * 4 states permit abortions to save the life or health of the woman, but use a narrow definition of health; * 4 states permit abortions only to save the life of the woman.
Some states require the involvement of a second physician when a later-term abortion is performed. Nine states require that a second physician attend in order to treat a fetus if it is born alive. Ten states require that a second physician certify that the abortion is medically necessary.
Kansas law is strict on the issue of late-term abortions.
Kansas law requires that such procedures can only be performed after viability if two independent doctors agree that not to do so would put the mother at risk of irreparable harm by giving birth.
Did ya catch that last part folks??? Kansas law only allows late term abortions after two independent doctors agree that not doing so puts the mother at risk.
This guy was a life-saver not a death-dealer. A man who believed so strongly that what he was doing was for the good of mankind that he continued to do so even after being shot in both arms by Shelly Shannon in 1993.
In March 2009 the courts had given him a NOT GUILTY verdict confirming that he had not violated Kansas law by using a non-independent second doctor to substantiate the risks to the mother which is what set this NUTJOB- who was more interested in the sensationalism of having a cause than in real life- off.
That anyone is even trying to defend this man who committed cold blooded murder on a life saver in a house of God just floors me. Absolutely floors me. Talk about not dealing with reality...
I generally am very willing to let others have their own opinions even if I do not agree with them but you should be ashamed of yourself Lockman.
I wasn't defending the guy who killed the doctor, obviously he should be put away for ever.
I just was questioning the courageous part of Glassman's statement. I'm against abortion but have come to the conclusion that it's not going to be against the law.
I do oppose our government from making it a payable expense to the taxpayer.
The good doctor is a murderer in my eyes but if our government has decided that state sponsored murder is ok, what can I do.
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actually it is you who has decided what murder is, i won't bother to try to change your mind about he definition, esp. since it's not likely you'll ever be pregnant anyway.
the law is quite clear, this doctor committed no murder, and the Bible holds no precedents within it's teachings to convince me or anybody else who has actually read it seriously to convince them because it isn't there. show me one passage where it is forbidden. in fact, the Bible tends to portray women, children and slaves as property and calls specifically for finacnial compensataion to the husband of a woman who is struck in such a way as to cause her to misscarry.
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Here is the passage that Christians believe defines abortion as murder because it states the point in time in which God recognizes an individual:
King James Version (KJV) Public Domain Jeremiah 1:5 (King James Version)
5"Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations."
I realize that point in time where life begins is the matter of some contestation between different sects in society; but,.....
If you are a Christian, and if you believe in the divinity of the Bible.....I can see where that passage compels you to believe that God recognizes the Sanctitiy of life at the time of conception.....it almost sounds as though he recognized it before conception.
Most Christians should have pants with worn out knees from praying......my pants have a worn out ass from backsliding (my hypocrisy knows no bounds).
However, such a passage exists and if persons should be allowed to herald their beliefs.....then you must concede that this one has a faith based foundation.
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