posted
I don't mean to sound crude or anything...but...that dude must have been one hell of a shot. He nailed 2 motorcycle cops with headshots before they drew their guns. Then, 2 hours later, he nailed 2 SWAT with headshots before he was killed. So bizarre. My heart goes out to the officers families. Pray they have peace.
-------------------- It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious.
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I remember when I was getting out of the Army the Oakland Police Department was hiring. I myself was not going to be a police officer just because I dont believe in arresting someone for having small amounts of personal marijuana among other issues.
Anyway, the point im making is they pay damn good to be a cop in Oakland. I think it was around $75,000 starting. However, it IS California where the cost of living is higher. Still, for police it is good.
Of course, they need to pay more because Oakland is plagued with crime such as this.
I'm sure there will be the left out there blaming guns for this when cleary this person was a mess waiting to happen.
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quote:Originally posted by CashCowMoo: I'm sure there will be the left out there blaming guns for this when cleary this person was a mess waiting to happen.
I doubt he would of been able to kill them with a knife or other weapon...
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
quote:Originally posted by CashCowMoo: I'm sure there will be the left out there blaming guns for this when cleary this person was a mess waiting to happen.
I doubt he would of been able to kill them with a knife or other weapon...
specious argument...
had he been carjacked, instead, he likely would not have been able to disable his attackers with a "knife or other weapon."
Now, I don't mean this particular puke. Although the slim possibility exists that the cops were out to off him for some bewildering movie-plot reason, I agree the little evidence we have points to his being a puke, and it's a damn shame the cops let him get the drop on them.
But to cast such a wide net that keeps me from being able to protect my home, kids, etc...well, that's too wide a net.
-------------------- Nashoba Holba Chepulechi Adventures in microcapitalism...
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quote:Originally posted by T e x: But to cast such a wide net that keeps me from being able to protect my home, kids, etc...well, that's too wide a net.
I'm 36 and I have never owned a gun and never will for personal reasons other then the political gun issue. I have never been in imminent danger and probably never will. Does it mean I never will? Of course not. It could but I have a better chance of getting killed in a car or plane crash imo.
IMHO people just use the excuse of "protection" for their young adolescent male GI JOE fantasies of blowing things up with guns. Most if not all of you live in a fairly safe neighborhood like me and will never see the violence of South Central LA/Compton, for example, unless of course you venture into that area. You just like owning guns and blowing things up. If you were more honest and admitted that I would have more respect for you on why you own the guns instead of saying it is for "protection". Protection is an afterthought. When you own a AK-47 or whatever equally powerful weapon that is not for protection my friend.
But anyways we have talked this gun issue to death in the past so really no need to repeat what we all have already said to each other. My stance is a gun is more likely to kill a cop then a knife. It is your constitutional right to own a gun but it is not a constitutional right to let criminals and mentally deranged people to get guns so easily. You all talk about having employers arrested and severly punished for hiring illegal immigrants. How about lobbying for having gun shops and so called "gun dealers" with federal licenses more severly punished as a deterrent to illegal gun sales.? It would only make honest and legal gun owners and dealers look favorably.
And personally guns imo should only be sold through retail outlets and not at traveling gun shows, private residences by so called "federally licensed gun dealers" etc. It is too easy for illegal guns to fall through the cracks in the aformentioned methods of selling guns.
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
posted
people just use the excuse of "protection" for their young adolescent male GI JOE fantasies of blowing things up with guns. Most if not all of you live in a fairly safe neighborhood like me and will never see the violence of South Central LA/Compton, for example, unless of course you venture into that area. You just like owning guns and blowing things up. If you were more honest and admitted that I would have more respect for you on why you own the guns instead of saying it is for "protection". Protection is an afterthought. When you own a AK-47 or whatever equally powerful weapon that is not for protection my friend
LOL, thanks for telling me what i think
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: I doubt he would of been able to kill them with a knife or other weapon...
cops have guns and the people don't? that's what they have in Mexico. people and cops are still dying.
guess whose the biggest supplier of guns to the south of the border cartels? .. yup.. the USA... :
Article #1
"Among the guns the police recovered was an assault rifle traced back across the border to a dingy gun store here called X-Caliber Guns."
"Mexican authorities have long complained that American gun dealers are arming the cartels. This case is the most prominent prosecution of an American gun dealer since the United States promised Mexico two years ago it would clamp down on the smuggling of weapons across the border. It also offers a rare glimpse of how weapons delivered to American gun dealers are being moved into Mexico and wielded in horrific crimes."
"The gun laws in the United States allow the sale of multiple military-style rifles to American citizens without reporting the sales to the government,"
"What is more, the sheer volume of licensed dealers more than 6,600 along the border alone, many of them operating out of their houses makes policing them a tall order. Currently the A.T.F. has about 200 agents assigned to the task."
"George Iknadosian is accused of being a top gun-supplier. When government agents raided his Phoenix gun shop last May, they found hundreds of weapons allegedly destined for Mexico."
"As many as 2,000 firearms are believed to cross the border into Mexico every day. And they are often assault weapons, Tracy reports.
The ATF says that 7,700 guns found in Mexico last year were traced to sellers in the United States."
I guess Sheriff what's his name feels busting illegal immigrants is more important then the 40,000 warrants he neglects that perhaps one of which was probably the Phoenix gun dealer who sold guns to the cartels. I guess the ATF or whomever had to take care of that.
posted
Mexico can deal with their issues themselves. I don't care what they do. Don't care if the whole country implodes.
Here in America we have a right to bare arms for a very good reason. It was decided long ago that the people should keep and maintain a militia for the purpose of not only fighting foreign enemies but to keep government in check. People in this country have... or used to.. have a right to defend themselves.
I'm 35 and have owned guns my whole life. I will continue to.
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no fantasies, either. I lived in a "fairly safe" neighborhood most of my life, until the fire. Yet, I also got beaten so bad when I was in the sixth grade that I couldn't go to school for a few days.
Believe it or don't, but part of what keeps the savages in check around here is they can't tell *for sure* which of their next victims might kill 'em.
I don't know about AK-47s etc... but I do know about 30:06s and 870 pumps and a coupla dependable sidearms.
In fact, I once killed a rattlesnake out in Ft. Davis, in a yard with little kids running around, and the pistol I used was much more efficient and safer than an axe or a machete.
By the way? At that same household, later, a Game Warden killed with a rifle a 160-pound cougar that was surveying the yard for that night's dinner. Up to that point, the cougar had been eating only pets in town, but who's to say that night he wouldn't have decided to hit one of the young boys when they went to feed the pigs? You ever been around big cats? If not, lemme tell ya--you're pretty safe in believing me when I say you don't want a "pet" tiger/lion etc escaping into your neighborhood, and you dang sure don't want a wild one moving in...
Mach, you're a reasonable guy, but in this case you're *projecting* from only your own experience. I have no idea what life's like in your "fairly safe" neighborhood. But I can tell based on your posts that it's nothing like my own experience. So, to talk about "fair," it's not fair to have your voice take precedence over mine in Congress.
-------------------- Nashoba Holba Chepulechi Adventures in microcapitalism...
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: I doubt he would of been able to kill them with a knife or other weapon...
cops have guns and the people don't? that's what they have in Mexico. people and cops are still dying.
guess whose the biggest supplier of guns to the south of the border cartels? .. yup.. the USA... :
Article #1
"Among the guns the police recovered was an assault rifle traced back across the border to a dingy gun store here called X-Caliber Guns."
"Mexican authorities have long complained that American gun dealers are arming the cartels. This case is the most prominent prosecution of an American gun dealer since the United States promised Mexico two years ago it would clamp down on the smuggling of weapons across the border. It also offers a rare glimpse of how weapons delivered to American gun dealers are being moved into Mexico and wielded in horrific crimes."
"The gun laws in the United States allow the sale of multiple military-style rifles to American citizens without reporting the sales to the government,"
"What is more, the sheer volume of licensed dealers more than 6,600 along the border alone, many of them operating out of their houses makes policing them a tall order. Currently the A.T.F. has about 200 agents assigned to the task."
"George Iknadosian is accused of being a top gun-supplier. When government agents raided his Phoenix gun shop last May, they found hundreds of weapons allegedly destined for Mexico."
"As many as 2,000 firearms are believed to cross the border into Mexico every day. And they are often assault weapons, Tracy reports.
The ATF says that 7,700 guns found in Mexico last year were traced to sellers in the United States."
I guess Sheriff what's his name feels busting illegal immigrants is more important then the 40,000 warrants he neglects that perhaps one of which was probably the Phoenix gun dealer who sold guns to the cartels. I guess the ATF or whomever had to take care of that.
quote:Originally posted by glassman: I doubt he would of been able to kill them with a knife or other weapon...
cops have guns and the people don't? that's what they have in Mexico. people and cops are still dying.
guess whose the biggest supplier of guns to the south of the border cartels? .. yup.. the USA... :
Article #1
"Among the guns the police recovered was an assault rifle traced back across the border to a dingy gun store here called X-Caliber Guns."
"Mexican authorities have long complained that American gun dealers are arming the cartels. This case is the most prominent prosecution of an American gun dealer since the United States promised Mexico two years ago it would clamp down on the smuggling of weapons across the border. It also offers a rare glimpse of how weapons delivered to American gun dealers are being moved into Mexico and wielded in horrific crimes."
"The gun laws in the United States allow the sale of multiple military-style rifles to American citizens without reporting the sales to the government,"
"What is more, the sheer volume of licensed dealers more than 6,600 along the border alone, many of them operating out of their houses makes policing them a tall order. Currently the A.T.F. has about 200 agents assigned to the task."
"George Iknadosian is accused of being a top gun-supplier. When government agents raided his Phoenix gun shop last May, they found hundreds of weapons allegedly destined for Mexico."
"As many as 2,000 firearms are believed to cross the border into Mexico every day. And they are often assault weapons, Tracy reports.
The ATF says that 7,700 guns found in Mexico last year were traced to sellers in the United States."
I guess Sheriff what's his name feels busting illegal immigrants is more important then the 40,000 warrants he neglects that perhaps one of which was probably the Phoenix gun dealer who sold guns to the cartels. I guess the ATF or whomever had to take care of that.
what pukes do has nothing to do with me or people like me. Gun dealers who break the law should suffer the consequences. Just as should automakers, car-lot dealers, and mortgage brokers.
That's really not hard to understand...
-------------------- Nashoba Holba Chepulechi Adventures in microcapitalism...
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quote:Originally posted by Relentless.: Mexico can deal with their issues themselves. I don't care what they do. Don't care if the whole country implodes.
Here in America we have a right to bare arms for a very good reason. It was decided long ago that the people should keep and maintain a militia for the purpose of not only fighting foreign enemies but to keep government in check. People in this country have... or used to.. have a right to defend themselves.
I'm 35 and have owned guns my whole life. I will continue to.
a right to bare arms
lol, what exactly are you advocating? Halter tops?
Shoulder-holsters *over* your clothes?
-------------------- Nashoba Holba Chepulechi Adventures in microcapitalism...
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quote:Originally posted by Relentless.: Mexico can deal with their issues themselves. I don't care what they do. Don't care if the whole country implodes.
Here in America we have a right to bare arms for a very good reason. It was decided long ago that the people should keep and maintain a militia for the purpose of not only fighting foreign enemies but to keep government in check. People in this country have... or used to.. have a right to defend themselves.
I'm 35 and have owned guns my whole life. I will continue to.
Wow, simples minds just don't get it. Mexico's issues are our issues.Not a difficult concept to grasp. Guns and drugs are interelated and that in turn affects us on our side of the border. Guns go south and drugs come north. Comprende? Power in Mexico is achieved with guns, money, and drugs. We should be attacking all 3 to diminish their power before the violence really crosses our borders.
I will say this again in capital letters:
NO ONE IS TAKING AWAY YOUR RIGHT TO OWN A GUN, WE ARE ONLY ASKING TO TAKE THE RIGHTS AWAY FROM CRIMINALS AND MENTALLY DERANGED PEOPLE BY SEVERLY PUNISHING PEOPLE WHO SELL THEM ILLEGALLY.
And the only way to do that is to strengthen current laws without trampling over your precious right to own one. Strengthen the laws and make punishments and fines more severe. Gun dealers, straw buyers etc. who sell guns knowningly illegally should be sentenced just like a murderer who pulls the trigger to commit a violent crime. I am not saying to take gun ownership from lawful people such as yourself away only to make sentences/fines more severe to the ones who break gun sale laws to deter illegal trafficking. Simple as that. And if a gun is used in a murder then that gun dealer who sold the gun and knew he/she was selling it illegally should be charged with murder or some similar or related charge. Now if that was done illegal gun sales would go down as well as across the border trafficking. Maybe not enough but a little at least.
Own all the guns you want but you should be responsible gun owners and insist that ILLEGAL gun sales be enforced strongly. And there should be more hiring of ATF agents then just 200 of the current ones. 200 is not enough to for this growing problem.
Funny how we demand the Mexicans do something about the drug trafficking from there to here but we say f*ck it when it comes to guns from here to there. Then you expect their Gov't and such to be fully cooperative with us.
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
posted
Funny you utter the insult that I am simple minded then procede to go on a rant proving that your neurons have been gasping for oxygen for years.
I don't demand Mexico does anything... about their drugs or anything. Quite simply I don't care about that country.
You might as well wear a Bdgee mask, as it seems you are destined to take his place as pointlessly vociferous, equally bitter and endlessly hopeful for government to limit the capable in an effort to curb some behavior you "feel" is immoral.
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: I doubt he would of been able to kill them with a knife or other weapon...
cops have guns and the people don't? that's what they have in Mexico. people and cops are still dying.
guess whose the biggest supplier of guns to the south of the border cartels? .. yup.. the USA... :
Article #1
"Among the guns the police recovered was an assault rifle traced back across the border to a dingy gun store here called X-Caliber Guns."
"Mexican authorities have long complained that American gun dealers are arming the cartels. This case is the most prominent prosecution of an American gun dealer since the United States promised Mexico two years ago it would clamp down on the smuggling of weapons across the border. It also offers a rare glimpse of how weapons delivered to American gun dealers are being moved into Mexico and wielded in horrific crimes."
"The gun laws in the United States allow the sale of multiple military-style rifles to American citizens without reporting the sales to the government,"
"What is more, the sheer volume of licensed dealers more than 6,600 along the border alone, many of them operating out of their houses makes policing them a tall order. Currently the A.T.F. has about 200 agents assigned to the task."
"George Iknadosian is accused of being a top gun-supplier. When government agents raided his Phoenix gun shop last May, they found hundreds of weapons allegedly destined for Mexico."
"As many as 2,000 firearms are believed to cross the border into Mexico every day. And they are often assault weapons, Tracy reports.
The ATF says that 7,700 guns found in Mexico last year were traced to sellers in the United States."
I guess Sheriff what's his name feels busting illegal immigrants is more important then the 40,000 warrants he neglects that perhaps one of which was probably the Phoenix gun dealer who sold guns to the cartels. I guess the ATF or whomever had to take care of that.
quote:Originally posted by Relentless.: Funny you utter the insult that I am simple minded then procede to go on a rant proving that your neurons have been gasping for oxygen for years.
I don't demand Mexico does anything... about their drugs or anything. Quite simply I don't care about that country.
You might as well wear a Bdgee mask, as it seems you are destined to take his place as pointlessly vociferous, equally bitter and endlessly hopeful for government to limit the capable in an effort to curb some behavior you "feel" is immoral.
ahh ok i understand you now. You do not care about drugs entering our society, the gun violence south of the border spilling across our border, illegal gun sales in general that causes violence here, etc. etc.
You basically do not care about anything much less a safe environment for your children and family free from hard drugs and violence. My bad, I was wrong about you all along. I thought you were human with emotions who cared about things that affect our country.
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
quote:Originally posted by Relentless.: Funny you utter the insult that I am simple minded then procede to go on a rant proving that your neurons have been gasping for oxygen for years.
I don't demand Mexico does anything... about their drugs or anything. Quite simply I don't care about that country.
You might as well wear a Bdgee mask, as it seems you are destined to take his place as pointlessly vociferous, equally bitter and endlessly hopeful for government to limit the capable in an effort to curb some behavior you "feel" is immoral.
Yikes, hold on, big dawg. You may get me to editing/modding...
first off, where's the insult about you being simple-minded?
-------------------- Nashoba Holba Chepulechi Adventures in microcapitalism...
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posted
I do not think government has any right to tell any of us what we should or should not ingest. I do not think government has any right to tell any of us how we arm ourselves.
I believe in survival of the fittest. I believe government has and always will be the wet dream of the weakest among us.
Now you understand a tenth of a percent of me.
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quote:Originally posted by Relentless.: Funny you utter the insult that I am simple minded then procede to go on a rant proving that your neurons have been gasping for oxygen for years.
I don't demand Mexico does anything... about their drugs or anything. Quite simply I don't care about that country.
You might as well wear a Bdgee mask, as it seems you are destined to take his place as pointlessly vociferous, equally bitter and endlessly hopeful for government to limit the capable in an effort to curb some behavior you "feel" is immoral.
Yikes, hold on, big dawg. You may get me to editing/modding...
first off, where's the insult about you being simple-minded?
posted
You know I don't care... If anything I enjoy an insult here and there as it get's my keyboard going. My complaints about Beege had nothing to do with me.. lol... I am ahem quite capable of defending myself. And sincerely my complaints about Beege.. were to him.
If Mach lets one go then it's fine with me and I will deal with it. As I said I am all about survival of the fittest.
Calm down ole buddy Protect the defenseless and leave us nuke hoarders be.
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quote:Originally posted by Relentless.: I do not think government has any right to tell any of us what we should or should not ingest. I do not think government has any right to tell any of us how we arm ourselves.
I believe in survival of the fittest. I believe government has and always will be the wet dream of the weakest among us.
Now you understand a tenth of a percent of me.
what we ingest: agreed, but I believe if I buy a bar of soap, I should not be expected to run chemical analysis to make sure it's not pure lye.
In other words, yes! I am depending on my hired-hands (the government) to test the products that we as a people ask them to test.
arming ourselves? Wouldn't bug me to pay a one-time $5 fee to get registered/licensed to buy firearms. Shoot, if that would lower the cost of hunting/fishing licenses, I'd be all for it.
Survival of the fittest is great, until it's your ol' granny. What do you wanna do? Shoot her in the head? I couldn't do that to my trusty dog companion of 12 years.
Look, don't get me wrong. I'm from the generation that hit the streets and more or less got us out of Nam. Sadly, I also watched NOBODY hit the streets after the Bush-stolen-elections. Then I was in DC when the Johnny-come-latelys filled the streets over the IRAQ invasion.
Tough titty--they let it happen. And it cascaded to this very predictable vice-grip, choke-down.
Best thing for everybody now is to walk slow, drink lots of water, and plant a garden.
-------------------- Nashoba Holba Chepulechi Adventures in microcapitalism...
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posted
Like I've said there is a balance between too much and too little government.
Paying a one time fee for gun ownership is like saying you think the first step to hell is just fine.
How does survival of the fittest have anything to do with shooting my 16 year old dog?... I'm talking about me and you.. not who we care for.
Blaming anything on Bush is exactly what is desired by those who have us working 60 hour weeks to produce the revenue we all are guilted into.
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