the important thing to keep in mind as we move forward is that we need the government to be paid back in full with interest. this will make the taxpayers whole again and the governmnet will be OUT of the banking business. ahead -slow and steady.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
The bail outs are working there is some sour points to the program and some banks and insurance co.'s have taken advantage of the programs but the fact that we have not had a complete melt down is proof of its worth. if it was not for the bail out program we could not have survived the economic hits that were coming.
-------------------- Wise men learn more from fools than fools from the wise. Posts: 3827 | From: beautiful California | Registered: Sep 2008
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posted
Where is the proof of this? Im not saying they DONT help, but a slowing down on the downturn, and then the rebound was invevitable. Wall Street needs to be placed in check and have much regulatory measures not to inhibit wealth accumulation but to prohibit fraud.
-------------------- It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so. Posts: 6949 | Registered: Apr 2004
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quote:Originally posted by CashCowMoo: Where is the proof of this? Im not saying they DONT help, but a slowing down on the downturn, and then the rebound was invevitable. Wall Street needs to be placed in check and have much regulatory measures not to inhibit wealth accumulation but to prohibit fraud.
the banks showed profits. they didn't just show less losses, they turned a buck...
as for full proof? i doubt we'll ever see it...
if you are questioning whether they were ever needed? the banks don't like the govt breathing down their necks any more than you would...
as for more regulations? they need some sort of TRANSPARENCY in the derivatives markets and they need rules to prohibit people playing the CDS market as if it were a casino. the whole idea behind commodities and futures markets was to HELP farmers make a decent living. it's been perverted into a "corner the market" manipulating game.... the original idea was to allow for farmers to sell their future crops before the harvest when the prices would always go down... futures trading allowed them to take a risk on selling what they don't have YET so they could get a better price.
the "good" idea behind CDSes was insurance on bonds... but the insurers never had to show they could pay the losses out of pocket.. all regualr insurers are mandated by state law to have enough cash on hand... just as all Casinoes must be able to buy in every chip out...
it's just common snese stuff. no need to make it complicated..
then there's the CDSes that people who have no interest in the deal (or skin in the game) trade they buy insurance on their neighbors house and burn it down to collect the insurance... and they have made alotof dough burning down the whole damn house. and they are getting away with it cuz nobody made it illegal...
i don't like other people gambling with my livelihood... do you?
IMO? what has happened was orchestrated.. somebody made a killing...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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quote:Originally posted by CashCowMoo: Where is the proof of this? Im not saying they DONT help, but a slowing down on the downturn, and then the rebound was invevitable. Wall Street needs to be placed in check and have much regulatory measures not to inhibit wealth accumulation but to prohibit fraud.
You make a good, common-sense point re arresting fraud from Wall Street.
However, "the rebound was inevitable" is *highly* debateable. Without intervention, we could have easily seen a bigger mess than many people can envision.
quote:Originally posted by CashCowMoo: Where is the proof of this? Im not saying they DONT help, but a slowing down on the downturn, and then the rebound was invevitable. Wall Street needs to be placed in check and have much regulatory measures not to inhibit wealth accumulation but to prohibit fraud.
the banks showed profits. they didn't just show less losses, they turned a buck...
as for full proof? i doubt we'll ever see it...
if you are questioning whether they were ever needed? the banks don't like the govt breathing down their necks any more than you would...
as for more regulations? they need some sort of TRANSPARENCY in the derivatives markets and they need rules to prohibit people playing the CDS market as if it were a casino. the whole idea behind commodities and futures markets was to HELP farmers make a decent living. it's been perverted into a "corner the market" manipulating game.... the original idea was to allow for farmers to sell their future crops before the harvest when the prices would always go down... futures trading allowed them to take a risk on selling what they don't have YET so they could get a better price.
the "good" idea behind CDSes was insurance on bonds... but the insurers never had to show they could pay the losses out of pocket.. all regualr insurers are mandated by state law to have enough cash on hand... just as all Casinoes must be able to buy in every chip out...
it's just common snese stuff. no need to make it complicated..
then there's the CDSes that people who have no interest in the deal (or skin in the game) trade they buy insurance on their neighbors house and burn it down to collect the insurance... and they have made alotof dough burning down the whole damn house. and they are getting away with it cuz nobody made it illegal...
i don't like other people gambling with my livelihood... do you?
IMO? what has happened was orchestrated.. somebody made a killing...
You bet your azz it was orchestrated...
I want names...
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It's all in the timing... Posts: 4303 | From: DSA | Registered: Dec 2003
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posted
IMF: Toxic asset fallout could reach $4T Fund sees more global write-downs as new types of assets deteriorate and economic conditions remain stressed. By Scott Spoerry, CNN senior producer April 21, 2009: 11:14 AM ET WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The International Monetary Fund has raised its estimate of the amount of toxic assets that banks and financial institutions will have to dispose of or write down to $4 trillion.
The IMF released information from its latest "Global Financial Stability Report" (GFSR) Tuesday saying its estimates for global write-downs has increased from $2.7 trillion in January to $4 trillion partly as a result of including more types of assets that have been depreciating.
Previous estimates had only included U.S. originated assets. Also contributing to the new estimates is what the IMF calls "the worsening base-case scenario for economic growth," a projection that the recovery will be painful and slow.
Two-thirds of the $4 trillion in losses will likely fall on banks, although the IMF says that non-bank financial institutions like insurance companies and pension funds have also been hit hard by declines in asset prices on both equities and bonds.
"Shrinking economic activity has put further pressure on banks' balance sheets as asset values continue to degrade, threatening their capital adequacy and further discouraging fresh lending," according to the GSFR.
Cross border international lending has intensified the crisis in some emerging market countries, says the IMF, which expects net private capital flows to emerging market countries to be negative in 2009, while at the same time 2009 refinancing needs for the emerging markets are expected to be about $1.2 trillion.
"The global financial system remains under severe stress as the crisis broadens to include households, corporations, and the banking sectors in both advanced and emerging market countries," the IMF said.
The IMF also worries that political support for additional aid to the financial system is waning as the public is becoming disillusioned by what it perceives as abuses of taxpayer funds.
The report notes a real risk that governments will be reluctant to allocate enough resources to solve the problem. The result, according to the IMF, is uncertainty that could hold back the private sector from "constructively engaging" to help the system dig itself out of the ongoing financial crisis.
On the brighter side, the IMF said that the response by policy makers is gradually beginning to restore confidence in the markets.
"Continued decisive and effective action is needed to preserve and strengthen these first signs of improvement, and to help provide a more stable and resilient platform for sustained global growth," José Viñals, financial counselor and director of the IMF's Monetary and Capital Markets Department, said.
The report notes that more capital will be needed as well as more coordination between governments.
-------------------- Wise men learn more from fools than fools from the wise. Posts: 3827 | From: beautiful California | Registered: Sep 2008
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i don't like other people gambling with my livelihood... do you?
IMO? what has happened was orchestrated.. somebody made a killing...
You bet your azz it was orchestrated...
I want names... [/QB]
here's the really reeeeallly sick part: the profits actually realised probably amount to under a trillion dollars to the select few while the losses sustained to the general public (taxpayers etc.) may hit well over 4 trillion...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
Gramm's commodity act of 2000 was, in effect, a pre-emptive pardon. If you're a Clinton fan, you might say he was asleep at da switch; if not, you might think he was in on da kill...
quote:Originally posted by thinkmoney: Dont understand why losses are not recovered and criminals prosecuted --
Whoever gave right for others' to gamble others' livelihood should give back all that was stolen and prosecuted -
Why is this not being done?
this is one time that the democrats and the GOPs were working together. it is very unlikely that anybody behind the scenes will ever be identified much less prosecuted. i doubt Clinton is clean, he's gone from broke to 100 millionaire and his wifes career in politiics has been thrown at her feet like flower petals...
about the only thing that can charged (as i understand it) is fraud, and that is rarely prosecuted criminally. i suppose that if somebody like T Boone Pickens or Warrne Buffet got burned badly enough (and were not "in" on the gig) they might pursue some civil litigation.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
the fraud as i understand it was to misrepresent their ability to "cover" their bets.
you cannot knowingly enter into a contract (CDS) that you know very well that you cannot satisfy... this is the same sort of fraud that many mortgagers and mortgagees entered into as well.. some of them are being prosecuted.
they took the money and crossed their fingers.
so many economists that i was reading last year and the year before were saying only a "perfect storm" could have brought this thing down.
i don't beleive in "perfect storms" -and i learned at a young age to expect the worst so i rarely get disappointed.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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