posted
Geithner's Wrong on the Yuan The Treasury Secretary should focus on consumption in China.By CALLA WIEMER | From today's Wall Street Journal Asia
China has taken a certain amount of heat from outgoing Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson for helping bring on the global financial crisis. But his newly sworn-in successor has just raised the temperature a notch. In written testimony to the Senate last week, Timothy Geithner invoked the dreaded "currency manipulator" label intimating that China is deliberately undervaluing the yuan. This is a heavily loaded term that the Bush administration for some years managed to dance around. Currency manipulation is prohibited under the International Monetary Fund Charter and can be taken as grounds for retaliatory trade sanctions.
The attention to the exchange rate is misplaced. A coherent story of global payments imbalances and the financial crisis can be told without recourse to charges of an undervalued yuan. Likewise, an agenda for getting out of the crisis and setting the global economy on a more balanced path does not depend on the yuan. The policy focus should be on stimulating consumption in China. The need for that predated the crisis but is now magnified by it.
China's surging growth brought a rise in the national saving rate. What makes China's case stand out is that the saving rate started from an already high 38% in 2000. An inexorable climb from then onward elevated the rate to 51% in 2007. A litany of factors is routinely cited for why China's saving rate is high: the need to provide for one's own retirement; the need to self-insure against risks of illness, injury, or job loss; the need to meet children's education expenses; and the need to accumulate funds to support lumpy expenditures on consumer durables or business start-ups in the absence of credit markets that function to do so. But although these factors explain a high level of saving, they do not offer insight as to why the saving rate rose so dramatically during a time when, if anything, life became less precarious and the financial system became more functional.
in that same time, our savings rate went negative. for good reason too, our wages dropped while prices all went up.
this is what every person in America is competing against:
why China's saving rate is high: the need to provide for one's own retirement; the need to self-insure against risks of illness, injury, or job loss; the need to meet children's education expenses; and the need to accumulate funds to support lumpy expenditures on consumer durables or business start-ups in the absence of credit markets that function to do so.
add to that a govt. that subsidizes all energy.
"protectionism" is not a four letter word.
we WILL lose our whole standard, and way of living "competing" with this.
people wonder where all the us money went? why the banks don't have any to lend? now you know where it went.
i cannot imagine any family in the US making less than 150,000$ in their household saving 38% much less 50%...
we save a pretty significant amount (IMO) at our house, and it ain't 30%...
MAYBE if you have graduated all of your kids from college? and paid off your house? you could save 50% for a few years before you retire?
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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Are they still? Are we still importing as much as we were and are they still exporting as much as they are? Global news would have me believe there have been millions of jobs cut in China this last year.
-------------------- No longer eligible for government service due to lack of tax issues. Posts: 5178 | From: Up North | Registered: Dec 2005
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posted
Yes China is still a factor...but...because of all the jobs we have lost over the last 10 years, the damage is already done here...now we can't afford to buy the Chinese imports anymore, so they will start down the same path...
Say goodbye to the "middle class"...
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It's all in the timing... Posts: 4303 | From: DSA | Registered: Dec 2003
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posted
We haven't lost jobs over the past 10 years. During Bush's 8 years, we created 4 million new jobs.
Posts: 1577 | From: Ohio | Registered: Oct 2007
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posted
Like I have pointed out earlier, we can thank ol Bill Clinton for giving China most favored nation trading status. That really bent the American worker over hard core. Bill Clinton created more jobs in China than he did in the United States.
Oh, btw didnt the Clintons get some shady donations from Chinese businessmen? I believe they did and there was some controversy over it, but the media would only let exposure go up to a point.
-------------------- It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so. Posts: 6949 | Registered: Apr 2004
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posted
Actually if we are counting the total numbers of jobs created or lost until Jan 20 12:00pm that number is closer to 3 Mil. Oh...and the population of the United States grew by approximately 20 Million people during those 8 years. Just thought I'd throw that number out there too in case somebody somewhere might think it relevant to the conversation.
-------------------- No longer eligible for government service due to lack of tax issues. Posts: 5178 | From: Up North | Registered: Dec 2005
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posted
It takes an increase of 100,000 jobs per month just to meet the increase in population.
That means that to just stay still there must be 1.2 million new jobs every year. According to PM, "During Bush's 8 years, we created 4 million new jobs."
8 x 1.2 = 9.4 million and 9.6 - 4 = 5.6 million jobs below standing still during dubya's reign.
We have been going backward for 8 years.
Posts: 11304 | From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
All this is noise. The claim was that we lost jobs over the past 10 years. We did not!
Posts: 1577 | From: Ohio | Registered: Oct 2007
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The numbers don't lie. The percentage of jobs in the population now compared to when you republican party first crooks took control is way down. That's a loss in employment and that is the topic.
It's a simple equation...the chance of someone being gainfully employed is much lower than it was in the Clinton years and the republicans did that to us.
Posts: 11304 | From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
More gibberish bdgee (as I always expect from you lefties). You can't even own up to something when you clearly make a mistake. The claim was that we lost jobs over the past 10 years. We did not! There is a net gain of jobs!
Good try though. When you don't have the facts on your side, post a bunch of gibberish designed to change the question.
Posts: 1577 | From: Ohio | Registered: Oct 2007
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quote:Trouble is, dufus, I do have the facts on my side.
PM, you are a crude mannerless jerk and a dimwitted fool.
You can call me names and even publish an entire page of your mindless gibberish, but the fact remains that there was a net creation of jobs during the Bush years.
Sorry that the facts don't support your socialist whining, but facts are facts and you are wrong as usual!
Posts: 1577 | From: Ohio | Registered: Oct 2007
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quote:Originally posted by bdgee: It takes an increase of 100,000 jobs per month just to meet the increase in population.
That means that to just stay still there must be 1.2 million new jobs every year. According to PM, "During Bush's 8 years, we created 4 million new jobs."
8 x 1.2 = 9.4 million and 9.6 - 4 = 5.6 million jobs below standing still during dubya's reign.
We have been going backward for 8 years.
pms...looks like a net loss of jobs
-------------------- jordan Posts: 5812 | From: st paul,mn | Registered: Feb 2004
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That wasn't the issue and you know it. The claim is that there was a LOSS of jobs during the Bush years. That is incorrect. There were more jobs in the United States at the end of Bush's term that at the beginning. Those are the facts and your attempt to cloud the issue is childish!
Posts: 1577 | From: Ohio | Registered: Oct 2007
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posted
Yes, there were jobs created during the Bush administration......at McDonalds and Burger King and Taco bell. Part time jobs paying minimum wage at best and, with no benefits.
But the overall percentage of employed adults in the country fell and that is a decrease in jobs relative to the population.
Look, dumb-dumb, if you have an open pot of water boiling on the stove putting off steam at a rate greater than fresh supplies of water are put into it, it goes dry and ruins the pan, in spite of the fact that it had more water added to it.
It does little good for the pot with the hole burned in it, if thereafter, you try and excuse away your negligence of putting ENOUGH water in the pot by claiming water was added all day. You failed to do your job of putting in enough to at least equal the loss to evaporation and you are the guilty party, not those from whom you wrested control of the water supply.
The republicans with their religious adherence to freemarketism did this to us by not seeing to it that there were way more jobs than they supplied.
Posts: 11304 | From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
"Yes, there were jobs created during the Bush administration"
There were not enough jobs to keep up with population increases and the majority of the jobs that developed during dubya's reign were either part time or minimum wage jobs, neither carrying any benefits. Too, most of those that lost jobs and did manage to find other employment could not find work paying more than a small portion of their previous job.
All in all, dubya's reign produced a net drop in the percentage of employed Americans and a net loss in income per job.
The best that can be said of the job situation due to dubya is that some of us survived, however less well off.
Posts: 11304 | From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
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quote:It takes an increase of 100,000 jobs per month just to meet the increase in population.
The increase in population in the US is largely due to immigration, whether legal or illegal. I think I read somewhere that the number is actually higher on that increase in jobs.
quote:Yes, there were jobs created during the Bush administration
As with the Clinton administration, these were pretty much low paying jobs. Most of these jobs were not enough to keep the people working them off of some sort of state aid. This was even with more than one family member in the household working. Looked great on paper though for both Clinton and Bush II.
quote:Like I have pointed out earlier, we can thank ol Bill Clinton for giving China most favored nation trading status. That really bent the American worker over hard core. Bill Clinton created more jobs in China than he did in the United States.
This was actually Al Gore. Al Gore was in the pockets of the Chinese. He should never have been allowed to run against Bush II. Gore was a criminal. The dems should have run somebody else in that election. If they would have, I feel Bush II would have lost by a large margin and we wouldn't have to listen to this "stolen election" trash.
quote:thats common knowledge..
Are you bdgee's "yes man"?????? Or are you bdgee just posting under another ID. I don't think anyone in here can tell. You worship him like everything he says came from the almighty himself. I hate to say it (actually, no I don't) but not everything he says is right. Be your own person for once.
-------------------- "When you're in a hole, the first thing you do is stop digging." -H. Ross Perot Posts: 111 | From: Detroit | Registered: Jun 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Propertymanager: More gibberish bdgee (as I always expect from you lefties). You can't even own up to something when you clearly make a mistake. The claim was that we lost jobs over the past 10 years. We did not! There is a net gain of jobs!
Good try though. When you don't have the facts on your side, post a bunch of gibberish designed to change the question.
prove it. post some reliable data showing how many jobs there were before Bush entered office and how many as he left.
the thing is? you won't find any reliable data.
know why? it isn't collected.
Bush pulled numbers outa his butt, and you quoted them.
it's funny how this discussion got started. retired talked about all the jobs we lost over the last ten years.
we did lose jobs, good paying maunfacturing jobs, and we lost tehm to China, yet you seem to be wanting to argue that? you obviously have no clue..
as usual you chime in with your Bush the hero crapola that you cannot even back... you are just repeating Dubya..
the FACT is that average household income DROPPED under Bush, the DOW and the S&P and the NASD DROPPED under Bush. those numbers all by themselves prove for a fact that we didn't gain jobs or wealth under Bush.
since you have such a hard time with reality, you should definitely stay away from booze and dope
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
Worst year for jobs since '45 Annual loss biggest since end of World War II. Unemployment rate rises to 7.2%.
Last Updated: January 9, 2009: 12:11 PM ET
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- The hemorrhaging of American jobs accelerated at a record pace at the end of 2008, bringing the year's total job losses to 2.6 million or the highest level in more than six decades.
that's more than half your 4 million created claim...
thing is? the 4 million claim was BUSH's own persoanl claim, its bullcrap:
According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS), the United States has gained 2,866,000 net private-sector jobs between 2001, when President George W. Bush took office, and the first quarter of 2008.
guess what? they were all gone by the last quarter of Bush's reign... facts are darn inconvenient, especially if you are Sean Hannity or Limbugger.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
"Are you bdgee's "yes man"?????? Or are you bdgee just posting under another ID. I don't think anyone in here can tell. You worship him like everything he says came from the almighty himself. I hate to say it (actually, no I don't) but not everything he says is right. Be your own person for once."
That post was in terribly poor taste and made by one horribly ill informed.
Here's the appropriate question that should be answered. Are you attempting to be bdgee's nemesis? Why? It certainly isn't because you display anything like an open mind. Maybe you think you are the one person in all of creation that has the right to drive non-right-wing adherents off the internet? So why? At best you seem to be more a running mate of PM or his designated protector.
Jordan doesn't deserve to be grilled with crudely inferred assertions and you don't seem to be interested in posting without trying to imply some sort of insult at someone that isn't tried and true far right-wing republican party faithful.
Try leaving off the insults and intentionally degrading inferences, without which you seem unable to post in Off Topics. (Indeed, you have been more like PM than PM himself in that respect. Maybe like him you are so ignorant of common courtesy and what others think that you believe you are not issuing degrading assertions and insulting others. You are, though. And I think it is exactly what you intend.) We don't need the hate and derogatory commentary designed to bolster the egotistical self image of anyone's far right-wing obsessions. No one appointed you God or even a disciple of Jesus.
If you have a question of me, or anyone else, ask it, properly and without the insulting childish assumptions you like to cast about. I might answer an honest question, but now so long as it is couched in the hate and vitriol carried in almost every post of yours.
Oh, and leave off loading every statement you make with extreme right win propaganda, adjoined so often to an inference that some individual isn't worthy. We know what brought the world to this pitiful state and you have made it clear that you champion it.
And I know it is going to be a chore for you, but show a bit of respect for those not ashamed to have not voted for either dubya or McCain. The Permanent Republican Majority failed, just like the Third Reich. Arrogance, though, seems to hang about long after, like the stench of rot. Power is a fleeting.
Posts: 11304 | From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
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quote:Try leaving off the insults and intentionally degrading inferences, without which you seem unable to post in Off Topics.
Now, THAT'S FUNNY!!! Yes, rhwdetroit, please do try to be as civil as bdgee - he never insults anyone!!! LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!
Posts: 1577 | From: Ohio | Registered: Oct 2007
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quote:Try leaving off the insults and intentionally degrading inferences, without which you seem unable to post in Off Topics.
Now, THAT'S FUNNY!!! Yes, rhwdetroit, please do try to be as civil as bdgee - he never insults anyone!!! LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!
Face facts, PM. Of all the name calling crude insulting bigoted jerks that have ever posted here, you are the worst. Like rhwdetroit, you came here insulting and name calling. You, like him, were asked to stop attacking and insulting. It did no good. Hopefully, he will take the hint, as no one anywhere needs to have to put up with another of you.
You haven't yet learned to act civil to anyone. You haven't yet learned to practice the truth. You haven't even attempted to control that hate and ridicule you attack anything and everybody who isn't willing to hold their palm over a candle and swear absolute and undying loyalty to the republican party (like tricky dick's slave), first, last, and everywhere in between, never bothering to see if they are even telling the truth, let alone wrong, and certainly never giving a damn if it is good for the countty, just the Party. You are a worn out record. You are sick.
(NOTE!!! That isn't name calling any more than telling a skunk it stinks or a tiger it has stripes. That is simple fact.0
No one here did anything but ask you over and over to stop the hate talk, the insults, and the degrading accusations and inferences. You refused. You earned your reputation as a completely ignorant jerk.
AND YOU EARNED BEING TOLD WHAT YOU ARE!
It isn't name calling. It isn't insulting. it isn't out of place. It is what you do to others almost every time you post.
I'd miss almost any of our posters if they disappeared........almost, I say, because there is you. This room would be a nicer place without you and youR hate and bigotry and certainly would loose no worthy input from you, as there has never been any.
Nothing you have ever posted here has made me think of anything but how big a jerk you are. I don't believe I can say that about any other person.........................ever.
Posts: 11304 | From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
Funny bdgee! You are, by far, the biggest name caller and insulter on this forum. You frequently type an entire page of childish insults and nonsensical gibberish in response to anyone that doesn't agree with your far left, socialist view of the world. You use flowery (nonsensical) gibberish to try to impress people and sound more like Dr. Seuss than a person with intelligent thought! LOL!
Posts: 1577 | From: Ohio | Registered: Oct 2007
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On top of that, you are so unthinklingly ignorant you think, or at least claim to think, that anything that isn't a simple minded bumpersticker-like slogan that champions some bit of the Party first republican mantra is gibberish. (Personally, I don't have a problem seeing you as actually that narrow minded and backward, because there has to be some reason anyone would choose to be so mean spirited and socially inept.)
On top of that you can't resist besmirching the name and being of anyone that isn't preaching freemarket republican Party propaganda and you go out of your way to smear the beliefs and concerns of anyone that isn't in you parade of madness and bigotry (other's religion is too, too, too, often a target of your insensitivity, even when you don't know who is or isn't of the religion you are attacking).
There has not been any evidence posted here to even hint that you have ever done anything in or with your life that wasn't some selfish device or scheme to use and abuse people trapped in poverty and with no way to protect themselves from you and your kind. There hasn't been any evidence that you have ever successfully done anything except leach off people of poverty....and that is not an accomplishment, it is a confession of guilt and laziness.
Your post in this forum, collectively and generally individually, characterize you as nothing more than a self centered and self aggrandizing social bully and mean spirited jerk.
If you don't like the descriptions you find of you in this room, then stop the hatred and bigotry and stop insulting everyone that isn't already or is trying to become a rich far right-wing leach on the Government teat.
No one here needs or wants to be constantly bombarded with your incessant attacks on the worthiness of the great masses of people you CHOOSE to hate and whose character you seem to think it is necessary to defile. If you can't post without brandishing insults and degrading descriptions of people, which you seem to not have the sense to recognize, then why not go to some internet site that bases its existence on such narrow minded and anti-social hate.
Yes, I know that they would already agree with your agenda and there would be no one there for you to win over, but you aren't winning over anyone here either, as, excepting you, no here is so narrow and directed toward hate, bigotry, and failed faulty 19th century social philosophy they would be susceptible your political sickness.
Posts: 11304 | From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
All that is very interesting, except that your entire premise is wrong. I am NOT a republican. I am not registered as a republican and I do not identify with the republicans. Of course, I'm certainly not a democrat, liberal, socialist, or communist. I am a CONSERVATIVE, which is VERY DIFFERENT than being a republican.
George Bush and the republicans have taken this country to the brink of socialism and that is unforgivable.
Posts: 1577 | From: Ohio | Registered: Oct 2007
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posted
PM, you are a republican, plain and simple.
I know you may not want that to be the case, even think it isn't, but it is.
That's ok, republicans are people too.....generally.....
It isn't your party affiliation that is the problem. Even were you a democrat, all else remaining, what else you are is the problem.
And, by the way, you have misused the word premise (sometimes premiss). A premise is propositional. What you are trying to site is not, it is a conclusion. And it isn't wrong.
I'm sorry to have to point it out to you, but with your feelings about poor people and your statements about their character and your pride in how you think of them and treat them, furnacing them with shelter only via government financing you very well may be a communist.
Indeed, as you describe your position of "property manager", principally acting on behalf of the government, it is almost a precise pragmatic description of communism. (I have experience in rental property management and never did I think of it the way you do. Or, at least I never described it like you do.)
You are a far right-wing republican, whose thought pattern hasn't escaped the error of the 19th century. ------------------------------------------------------ "I hear ya! I AM a Democrat, but I'm not a Liberal. bla, bla, bla"
Ha ha ha ha
I like that post, Highwaychild.
snicker
Posts: 11304 | From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
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No, I am not a republican. You are just factually incorrect, as usual. I am not registered as a republican and I do not identify with the republican party. I am a conservative and the republicans are not.
quote:And, by the way, you have misused the word premise (sometimes premiss). A premise is propositional. What you are trying to site is not, it is a conclusion. And it isn't wrong.
I don't think that you should be lecturing ANYONE on the english language. You have the worst writing skills of any adult I have ever seen. Your spelling is terrible; your sentences are run-on; and most of your writing is unintelligible.
quote:I'm sorry to have to point it out to you, but with your feelings about poor people and your statements about their character and your pride in how you think of them and treat them, furnacing them with shelter only via government financing you very well may be a communist.
Indeed, as you describe your position of "property manager", principally acting on behalf of the government, it is almost a precise pragmatic description of communism. (I have experience in rental property management and never did I think of it the way you do. Or, at least I never described it like you do.)
Ridiculous! I don't 'furnace' tenants with shelter only via government financing. You just made that up. I have some Section 8 tenants and some private pay tenants. Furthermore, I don't describe my position as property manager, Propertymanager is my screen name. Finally, I don't act on behalf of the government, I run my own business as I see fit, within the constraints of the law.
Posts: 1577 | From: Ohio | Registered: Oct 2007
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You are a far right-wing republican worshiper of freemarketism.
Whatever gave you the silly childish notion that one had to register to be of some party. That's absurd. I can prove it is false, if you are telling the truth about not being registered as a republican, simply by that fact.
I am not a Caucasian male, in spite of the fact that I have Caucasian ancestors, 100%, and all the appropriate equipment and desires, because I am not registered as one.
Posts: 11304 | From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
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quote:You are a far right-wing republican worshiper of freemarketism.
You're getting close! I'm a right-wing conservative proponent of freemarketism and capitalism!!!
Capitalism?? You have no inkling of what capitalism is.
But you are "a right-wing conservative proponent of freemarketism"....an irrationally Party first and always republiocan one.
Posts: 11304 | From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
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quote:Capitalism?? You have no inkling of what capitalism is.
Capitalism is the private ownership of wealth and private ownership of the means of production.
That contrasts with you socialists who want the government to take care of you as if you were a small child.
Posts: 1577 | From: Ohio | Registered: Oct 2007
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