posted
i was following along till i got to this part:
If you don't believe me, just watch how Congress and Barney Frank run the banks. If you thought they did a bad job running the post office, Amtrak, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac and the military, just wait till you see what they'll do with Wall Street.
this MYTH that Fannie is the reason for this crash is just another way to escape the truth.
FNMA was designed to help people who couldn't borrow "traditional money" buy a home.
ever hear that saying "Banks only lend money to people who don't need it"? that's why FNMA was created.
the fact is? the PRIVATE investors saw that FNMA didn't have "enough competition" so they got into the game too..
Private Investment accounts for 65% of the sub-prime loans... FNMA could have kept on doing what it was doing with NO pPROBLEMS at all, if the private sector hadn't shafted itself by jumping in..
as for trains? if people wanted to ride 'em? the Govt wouldn't need to take over Amtrack...
they kept it running for one reason.... to keep trains operating so that when oil got too expensive to fly? we'd still have 'em.... guess what?
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
IP: Logged |
posted
The age of prosperity is not over after this gets over with and we are going along good there will be more stupid republicans that will want to get rid of all the communist regulations and we can go through this again in another forty or fifty years.
-------------------- Wise men learn more from fools than fools from the wise.
IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by raybond: The age of prosperity is not over after this gets over with and we are going along good there will be more stupid republicans that will want to get rid of all the communist regulations and we can go through this again in another forty or fifty years.
posted
"...just watch how Congress and Barney Frank run the banks. If you thought they did a bad job running the post office, Amtrak, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac and the military, just wait till you see what they'll do with Wall Street."
Now explain to me exactly how Congress and Barney Frank were running any of those things for me to liked or not like how they did it? Neither had the authority to do any such thing.
I certainly don't always like the ways those things are operated, but no one of them has ever been run by Congress or Barney Frank.
They are, except for the military that is "run" by the Administration, each and every one, run as a private entity. (Yeah, even the post office, in order to please the right-wingers, contrary to the Constitution's provision that it be the responsibility of Congress, is operated as a separate entity from the Government!!!!
IP: Logged |
posted
Now explain to me exactly how Congress and Barney Frank were running any of those things for me to liked or not like how they did it? Neither had the authority to do any such thing.
Frank has argued that family life “should be fair game for campaign discussion,” wrote the Associated Press on Sept. 2. The comment was in reference to GOP vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin and her pregnant daughter. “They’re the ones that made an issue of her family,” the Massachusetts Democrat said to the AP.
The news media have covered the relationship in the past, but there have been no mentions since 2005, according to Nexis and despite the collapse of Fannie Mae. The July 3, 1998, Reliable Source column in The Washington Post reported Frank, who is openly gay, had a relationship with Herb Moses, an executive for the now-government controlled Fannie Mae. The column revealed the two had split up at the time but also said Frank was referring to Moses as his “spouse.” Another Washington Post report said Frank called Moses his “lover” and that the two were “still friends” after the breakup.
Frank was and remains a stalwart defender of Fannie Mae, which is now under FBI investigation along with its sister organization Freddie Mac, American International Group Inc. (NYSE:AIG) and Lehman Brothers (NYSE:LEH) – all recently participants in government bailouts. But Frank has derailed efforts to regulate the institution, as well as denying it posed any financial risk. Frank’s office has been unresponsive to efforts by the Business & Media Institute to comment on these potential conflicts of interest.
While the relationship reportedly ended 10 years ago, Frank was serving on the House Banking Committee the entire 10 years they were together. The committee is the primary House body which along with the Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight (OFHEO) has jurisdiction over the government-sponsored enterprises.
He has served on the committee since becoming a congressman in 1981 and became the ranking Democrat on the committee in 2003. He became chairman of the committee, now called the House Financial Services Committee, in 2007.
Moses was the assistant director for product initiatives at Fannie Mae and had been at the forefront of relaxing lending restrictions at the company for rural customers, according to the Feb. 23, 1998, issue of National Mortgage News (NMN).
“Herb Moses, who helped develop many of Fannie Mae’s affordable housing and home improvement lending programs, has left the mortgage industry,” Darryl Hicks wrote for NMN. “Mr. Moses - whose last day was Feb. 13 - spent the past seven years at Fannie Mae, most recently as director of housing initiatives. Over the course of time, he played an instrumental role in developing the company’s Title One and 203(k) home improvement lending programs.”
Franks was sleeping with Moses, a top exec at Fannie while he was in charge of the government body in charge of writing the laws that applied to it.
That's not a conflict of interest at the very least?
IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by SeekingFreedom: Franks was sleeping with Moses, a top exec at Fannie while he was in charge of the government body in charge of writing the laws that applied to it.
That's not a conflict of interest at the very least?
LOL.. if it was a hetero GOP relationship? it wouldn't be...
Wendy Lee Gramm (born 1945) is an American economist, currently the chairman of the Regulatory Studies Program at George Mason University's Mercatus Center, a free-market think tank based in Washington D.C. She is also the wife of former United States Senator Phil Gramm.
Wendy Lee Gramm was born in Hawaii and is of Korean and Hawaiian ancestry. She received a B.A. degree in economics from Wellesley College in 1966 and a Ph. D. in economics from Northwestern University in 1971. In her role at the Mercatus Center, Gramm generally calls for deregulation of the energy industry. Previously, Gramm held several positions in the Reagan Administration, including heading the Commodity Futures Trading Commission from 1988 to 1993. After a lobbying campaign from Enron, the CFTC exempted it from regulation in trading of energy derivatives. Subsequently, Gramm resigned from the CFTC and took a seat on the Enron Board of Directors and served on its Audit Committee. While on the board of directors she received donations from Enron to support the Mercatus Center.
After the Enron scandal, Gramm and the other directors of the energy company were named in several investor lawsuits, many of which have been settled. In particular, Gramm and other Enron directors agreed to an $168 million dollar settlement in a suit led by the University of California. As part of that settlement, the directors agreed to collectively pay $13 million to settle claims of insider trading. The remainder of the settlement was to be paid by insurance.
From 1985 to 1988, Gramm was head of the Office of Management and Budget's Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs (OIRA). In 2002, OIRA solicited public recommendations for regulatory reform. Mercatus made 44 recommendations.
Gramm also serves as chair of the Texas Public Policy Foundation and a director of the Independent Women's Forum, a conservative women's group. She has sat on the boards of Enron Corporation, Iowa Beef Processors, Invesco Funds, Longitude, the Chicago Mercantile Exchange, and State Farm Insurance Companies.
her hubbie?
Senator Phil Gramm
Some economists believe that the 1999 legislation spearheaded by Gramm and signed into law by President Clinton -- the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act -- was partially to blame for leading to the 2007 subprime mortgage crisis and 2008 global economic crisis.[10]. The Act is most well-known for repealing much of the Glass-Steagall Act, which had regulated the financial services industry. Gramm responded to such criticism by stating that he saw "no evidence whatsoever" that the subprime mortgage crisis was caused in any way "by allowing banks and securities companies and insurance companies to compete against each other."[11]
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
IP: Logged |
posted
LOL.. if it was a hetero GOP relationship? it wouldn't be...
Don't make this into a gay\anti gay issue, Glass. I don't care what his orientation is. And weren't you the one who was chastising me for attempting to justify bad behavior with more bad behavior?
IP: Logged |
posted
That's a lot of conspiritational bull sh-t, SF, and doesn't even attempt to respond to the question you claim to be answering. Your usual fare.
Again, "Now explain to me exactly how Congress and Barney Frank were running any of those things for me to liked or not like how they did it? Neither had the authority to do any such thing."
Get over your asinine right-wing lying campaign and provide something other than concocted absurd republican crap to justify your bogus claim. Prove there is ANYTHING to your absurd accusations.
IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by SeekingFreedom: LOL.. if it was a hetero GOP relationship? it wouldn't be...
Don't make this into a gay\anti gay issue, Glass. I don't care what his orientation is. And weren't you the one who was chastising me for attempting to justify bad behavior with more bad behavior?
justifying? SF, this crap has been going on from both parties.
it wasn't conflict of interest then, why should it be now?
you guys only complain when you are about to lose an election. i've been pointing this stuff out here for years. so don't start getting a persecution complex now.
Gramm was co-chair of John McCain’s presidential campaign[15] and his most senior economic adviser[16] from the summer of 2007[17] until July 18, 2008.[15] In a July 9, 2008 interview on McCain's economic plans, Gramm explained the nation was not in a recession, stating, "You've heard of mental depression; this is a mental recession." He added, "We have sort of become a nation of whiners, you just hear this constant whining, complaining about a loss of competitiveness, America in decline."
the only whining i'm hearing this week is from Mccain and Palin and their supporters
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
IP: Logged |
posted
What proof would you accept, Bdgee? Recorded messages between Frank and Moses? Sorry, didn't bug their house? Emails detailing the intent to maintain Fannie's freedom to dig the hole we find ourselves in just so Moses could get a nice income for his 'help' with Frank? Sorry, don't have access to their private email accounts.
What are we left to do but look at what we know as fact (which is contained in the link) and judge them to be of whatever weight we might choose as individuals?
Or have you forgotten Bill Clinton's recent words on the subject?
CLINTON: Well, maybe everybody does that a little bit. I think the responsibility that the Democrats have may rest more in resisting any efforts by Republicans in the Congress or by me when I was president to put some standards and tighten up a little on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
and
I think the main thing that you could blame the Democrats for, maybe, is that we should have made more of the problems of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and maybe the -- and tried more aggressively to regulate derivatives.
Who could he possibly be refering to if not Franks and others on the committees designed to regulate these groups?
IP: Logged |
posted
That's still just the ranting of sorry republican absurd crap. What you are claiming is nothing but lies and slander. You have no basis for it other than your bias, hate, and confusion.
IP: Logged |
posted
fannie and freddie are not the reason for this mess..
they definetely screwed up the books several years back.
DERIVATIVES are the reason for this mess, and the derivatives markets were protected by the "free market" proponents.. Bush and Paulson:
In response to a written question by Sen. Mike Crapo (R-ID) submitted at the Treasury Secretary’s Senate confirmation hearing in June 2006, Paulson said he was “wary” of proposals to strengthen regulation of derivatives because of their importance in managing risk.
CRAPO: I’m very concerned about the potential efforts in this Congress to change the manner in which we regulate derivatives or to impact the manner in which derivatives operate in the economy. As you know, the President’s Working Group on Financial Markets has explained why proposals that we have faced in the last couple of years for additional regulation of energy derivatives were not warranted, and has urged Congress to be aware of the potential for unintended consequences.
a) Do you share this view?
b) Do you agree with the view of Alan Greenspan and others that derivatives have helped create a far more flexible, efficient and resilient financial system?
c) Are you aware of any evidence that additional reporting requirements or other regulatory actions would reduce energy prices and price volatility or are energy prices and price volatility determined by the market?
PAULSON: I believe these proposals could have significant unintended consequences for the risk-management functions that the markets – whether over-the –counter or exchange-based – perform in our economy. It is my view that absent a clearly demonstrated need, we should be wary of major changes to the manner in which we regulate our derivatives markets.
The importance of derivatives markets in the U.S. economy should not be taken lightly, as businesses, financial institutions, and investors throughout the economy rely on these markets to manage their risks and to protect themselves from market volatility. These markets have contributed significantly to our economy’s ability to withstand and respond to various market stresses and imbalances.
quote:Originally posted by bdgee: That's still just the ranting of sorry republican absurd crap. What you are claiming is nothing but lies and slander. You have no basis for it other than your bias, hate, and confusion.
As well as historically verifiable facts and direct quotes from one of the most beloved Democratic president to date.
quote:Originally posted by glassman: fannie and freddie are not the reason for this mess..
they definetely screwed up the books several years back.
DERIVATIVES are the reason for this mess, and the derivatives markets were protected by the "free market" proponents.. Bush and Paulson:
In response to a written question by Sen. Mike Crapo (R-ID) submitted at the Treasury Secretary’s Senate confirmation hearing in June 2006, Paulson said he was “wary” of proposals to strengthen regulation of derivatives because of their importance in managing risk.
CRAPO: I’m very concerned about the potential efforts in this Congress to change the manner in which we regulate derivatives or to impact the manner in which derivatives operate in the economy. As you know, the President’s Working Group on Financial Markets has explained why proposals that we have faced in the last couple of years for additional regulation of energy derivatives were not warranted, and has urged Congress to be aware of the potential for unintended consequences.
a) Do you share this view?
b) Do you agree with the view of Alan Greenspan and others that derivatives have helped create a far more flexible, efficient and resilient financial system?
c) Are you aware of any evidence that additional reporting requirements or other regulatory actions would reduce energy prices and price volatility or are energy prices and price volatility determined by the market?
PAULSON: I believe these proposals could have significant unintended consequences for the risk-management functions that the markets – whether over-the –counter or exchange-based – perform in our economy. It is my view that absent a clearly demonstrated need, we should be wary of major changes to the manner in which we regulate our derivatives markets.
The importance of derivatives markets in the U.S. economy should not be taken lightly, as businesses, financial institutions, and investors throughout the economy rely on these markets to manage their risks and to protect themselves from market volatility. These markets have contributed significantly to our economy’s ability to withstand and respond to various market stresses and imbalances.
posted
Glass they may not be the reason for the entire mess but they sure did mess things up for many.
political blamesmanship.
Bush greenlighted the whole mortgage sector in '03 to raise more tax dollars.
he laid out the plan and the PRIVATE sector took the ball and ran with it.
FNMA and Freddie are responsible for only 35% of sub-prime loans.
Countrywide went under (and big) before they did...
if the private sector had not gone sub-prime crazy? none of this would have happened. the ONLY way the private sector could afford to do it was by using derivatives..
if you want to fix a problem? first you have to lay the blame where it belongs...
Fannie and Freddie were ALWAYS supposed to carry the weak paper, that's why they were created and that's why they were GSE's to begin with...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by glassman: Glass they may not be the reason for the entire mess but they sure did mess things up for many.
political blamesmanship.
Bush greenlighted the whole mortgage sector in '03 to raise more tax dollars.
he laid out the plan and the PRIVATE sector took the ball and ran with it.
FNMA and Freddie are responsible for only 35% of sub-prime loans.
Countrywide went under (and big) before they did...
if the private sector had not gone sub-prime crazy? none of this would have happened. the ONLY way the private sector could afford to do it was by using derivatives..
if you want to fix a problem? first you have to lay the blame where it belongs...
Fannie and Freddie were ALWAYS supposed to carry the weak paper, that's why they were created and that's why they were GSE's to begin with...
Not mentioned in political context glass.
IP: Logged |
posted
Ownership society is a slogan for a model of society promoted by United States President George W. Bush. It takes as lead values personal responsibility, economic liberty, and the owning of property. The ownership society discussed by Bush also extends to certain proposals of specific models of health care and social security. The term appears to have been used originally by President Bush (for example in a speech February 20, 2003 in Kennesaw, Georgia) as a phrase to rally support for his tax-cut proposals (Pittsburgh Post - Gazette, Bush OKs Funding Bill for Fiscal '03, Feb 21, 2003 Scott Lindlaw). From 2004 Bush supporters described the ownership society in much broader and more ambitious terms, including specific policy proposals concerning medicine, education and savings.
The idea that the welfare of individuals is directly related to their ability to control their own lives and wealth, rather than relying on government transfer payments, is a longstanding one, particularly in British conservatism.
In a modern form its implementation was developed as a main plank of Thatcherism, and is traced back to David Howell, before 1970, with help from the phrase-maker Peter Drucker.
In political practice under Margaret Thatcher's administration, it was implemented by measures such as the sale at affordable prices of public housing to tenants, and privatization.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
IP: Logged |
posted
The importance of derivatives markets in the U.S. "economy should not be taken lightly, as businesses, financial institutions, and investors throughout the economy rely on these markets to manage their risks and to protect themselves from market volatility. These markets have contributed significantly to our economy’s ability to withstand and respond to various market stresses and imbalances."
I understand the importance of the 600 trillion dollar OTC derivatives market and the 300 trillion tied to the LIBOR rate.
IP: Logged |
posted
"One of the problems with regulatory bodies and rules is that their creation comes from a different era.They never seem to be able fully to understand the market intricacies of the current market well enough to keep up or be a step ahead. With the financial markets utilizing the best technology and buying the best talent, the regulatory authorities are at a disadvantage and tend to be reactionary or out of touch. I'm not saying that they should slap on restrictions and freeze the markets during a crisis. That usually causes the crisis to spread and escalate.One of the worst things you can do in that situation is to dry up liquidity. But rather, by enabling regulators with the best technology and encouraging them to communicate with each other and agree on a uniform global strategy that supersedes lines drawn on a map, they would have the tools necessary to abort a crisis before it builds up steam. Not in the traditional sense, but more as a collegial effort to coordinate, educate, inform and guide."
"The reality is that there is nothing that you can do with a derivative that you couldn't do in the cash market. So even if they regulated the derivative market, people could do it through the cash market. And the only time you will see somebody use a derivative rather than cash is because it was more economically viable for them, which meant that they got a better price. Everybody benefits from that. They are saving their company money that they can redeploy. In fact, Myron Scholes makes the point that in some cases, people may come full circle and find that they can do a lot more things more cheaply in the cash market than in the derivative market. "
"Every industry has it's bad eggs in it. Everyone knows of people who are less than scrupulous, who have a lack of ethics. Actually, I think we do an excellent job of weeding out and finding the bad guy, better than most industries and certainly better than Congress."
A Million, A Minute by Hillary Davis
Pages 210 - 213
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
Quite the contrary. I think they both have been saying exactly what they intend to do. Obama wants to run a big socialist government that "shares the wealth" by taking from those that are productive and giving to those who are too lazy to work. McCain wants to institute a big socialist cap and trade system that will fix the non-existent global warming fantasy and spend hundreds of billions of dollars in another socialist program bailing out irresponsible homeowners. Both of these clowns voted for the socialist $700 Billion bailout of the big Wall Street fatcats.
IP: Logged |
posted
McCain wants to institute a big socialist cap and trade system
forget whether global warming is global or warming, or man-made.
please explain to me how the cap and trade system is socialism.
cuz from what i've been able to find out? it looks an awful lot like a derivatives market. Derivatives markets are not socialist, as a matter of fact? they seem to be pretty good at redistributing wealth the way it's supposed to go...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
IP: Logged |
posted
The cap and trade system is socialistic because it allows the government to further control industry in this country. When you consider that they're using a big scam (global warming) as the excuse to exercise this control, it's obivous that this is being done for the purpose of promoting socialism.
IP: Logged |
By your logic then, all of the major industrialized nations of the world are Socialist? Since most are also bailing out their banks and credit markets with billions of dollars of taxpayer monies. Is that your thinking? Or do you limit your socialist comments to the USA only? Just curious.
-------------------- It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious.
IP: Logged |
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
Printer-friendly view of this topic
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
