posted
Back to Story - Help Carter: Hamas is willing to accept Israel as its neighbor By KARIN LAUB, Associated Press Writer 44 minutes ago
Former President Carter said Monday that Hamas the Islamic militant group that has called for the destruction of Israel is prepared to accept the right of the Jewish state to "live as a neighbor next door in peace."
But Carter warned that there would not be peace if Israel and the U.S. continue to shut out Hamas and its main backer, Syria.
The Democratic former president spoke in Jerusalem after meeting last week with top Hamas leader, Khaled Mashaal, and his deputy in Syria. It capped a nine-day visit to the Mideast aimed at breaking the deadlock between Israel and Hamas militants who rule the Gaza Strip.
"They (Hamas) said that they would accept a Palestinian state on the 1967 borders, if approved by Palestinians and that they would accept the right of Israel to live as a neighbor next door in peace," Carter said.
In Damascus, Mashaal said Hamas was offering Israel a 10-year truce if it withdraws from all lands it seized in the 1967 war.
He confirmed that Hamas would be satisfied with a Palestinian state on the 1967 borders implicitly accepting that Israel would exist alongside that state. But Mashaal stressed the group would never outright recognize the Jewish state.
"We agree to a (Palestinian) state on pre-67 borders, with Jerusalem as its capital with genuine sovereignty without settlements but without recognizing Israel," Mashaal told reporters.
He appeared to be referring to east Jerusalem, since Israel held west Jerusalem before 1967. After the 1967 Israeli-Arab war, Israel declared the entire city of Jerusalem as its capital.
The borders they referred to were the frontiers that existed before Israel captured large swaths of Arab lands in the 1967 Mideast war including the West Bank, east Jerusalem and Gaza.
In the past, Hamas officials have said they would establish a "peace in stages" if Israel were to withdraw to the borders it held before 1967. But it has been evasive about how it sees the final borders of a Palestinian state and has not abandoned its official call for Israel's destruction.
Israel, which evacuated Gaza in 2005, has accepted the idea of a Palestinian state there and in much of the West Bank. But it has resisted Palestinian demands that it return to its 1967 frontiers.
In Washington, the State Department dismissed Carter's assessment of his meetings, saying there was no indication Hamas wanted peace with Israel.
"What is clear to us is that there certainly is no change in Hamas' position," said deputy spokesman Tom Casey. "It does not recognize Israel's right to exist, it has not eschewed or walked away from terrorism and violence, nor has it said it will honor any of the previous agreements that have been made with the Israeli government."
Though the State Department said it advised Carter not to meet with Hamas, Casey said it was open to hearing from him about his talks. "I am sure if he would like to offer any thoughts to us we would certainly be happy to hear them," Casey said.
Israel considers Hamas to be a terrorist group and has shunned Carter because of his meetings with Mashaal and other Hamas figures. Hamas has been behind dozens of suicide bombings and other attacks that have killed some 250 Israelis.
Syria harbors Hamas' exiled leadership in its capital, Damascus, and supports the Lebanese Hezbollah guerrillas who warred with Israel in the summer of 2006. The U.S. considers both Hamas and Hezbollah terrorist organizations.
Carter urged Israel to engage in direct negotiations with Hamas, saying failure to do so was hampering peace efforts.
"We do not believe that peace is likely and certainly that peace is not sustainable unless a way is found to bring Hamas into the discussions in some way," he said. "The present strategy of excluding Hamas and excluding Syria is just not working."
Israel says Carter's talks embolden Palestinian extremists and hurt Palestinian moderates as they try to make peace with the Jewish state. Abbas, who rules only the West Bank, is in a bitter rivalry with Hamas.
"The problem is not that I met with Hamas in Syria," Carter said Monday. "The problem is that Israel and the United States refuse to meet with someone who must be involved."
Carter said Israeli-Palestinian peacemaking has "regressed" since a U.S.-hosted Mideast conference in November. He faulted Israel for continuing to build on disputed land the Palestinians want for a future state and for its network of roadblocks that severely hamper Palestinians traveling in the West Bank.
"The prison around Gaza has been tightened," he said, referring to Israel's blockade of the territory since the Hamas takeover.
Israel has been negotiating directly with Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, who heads a moderate government based in the West Bank. Abbas lost control of the Gaza Strip last June, when Hamas violently seized control of that territory.
Carter said Hamas promised it wouldn't undermine Abbas' efforts to reach a peace deal with Israel, as long as the Palestinian people approved it in a referendum. In such a scenario, he said Hamas would not oppose a Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza.
Carter said Hamas officials, including Mashaal, agreed to this in a written statement.
But Hamas spokesman Sami Abu Zuhri in Gaza said Hamas' readiness to put a peace deal to a referendum "does not mean that Hamas is going to accept the result of the referendum."
Such a referendum, he said, would have to be voted on by Palestinians living all over the world. They number about 9.3 million, including some 4 million living in the West Bank, Gaza and east Jerusalem.
Carter said Hamas rejected his specific proposal for a monthlong unilateral cease-fire.
But Carter said Hamas has promised to let a captured Israeli soldier send a letter to his parents.
Direct communication between Israel and Hamas could facilitate the release of Cpl. Gilad Shalit, who has been held in Gaza for nearly two years.
Israel agrees in principle to release 1,000 Palestinian prisoners in exchange for Schalit, but after back-and-forth talks through Egyptian intermediaries, has approved only 71 of the specific prisoners that Hamas wants freed, he said.
___
Associated Press Writer Albert Aji in Damascus, Syria contributed to this report.
posted
'Yeah, if you like, give us all the land that you took because we tried to kill you, we'll, uh, be peaceful...ok?'
Sure, that sounds like a good idea. Appeasement has worked so well in the past. Wish Carter would just retire and dissappear instead of trying to make trouble for those who actually have to deal with the trouble he stirs up.
Posts: 1802 | From: Utah | Registered: Mar 2008
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posted
I think we're doing just fine right now by denying Hamas international funding. If they want to destroy their neighbors, let them do it without our money. Beyond that, while I'm not sure I would go quite as far as Ron Paul suggested, he did make a valid point. Stop holding Israel back and let them do things their way. They are a nuclear capable country with more than sufficient ability to defend itself. The only reason Lebanon wasn't a smoking hole in the ground was international pressure for Israel to back off. If they were allowed to demonstrate the full consequences of firing rockets into their borders fewer countries would support attacks on Israel.
Like it or not, Afghanistan and Iraq sure made a point about what happens when you poke a bear with a stick.
Posts: 1802 | From: Utah | Registered: Mar 2008
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posted
IMO, if Cater had started in the gas shortage in the seventies and spend all his time and efforts working on alternative fuels and independance from foreign oil instead of trying to broker deals with liars and two-bit thug terrorist groups like Hamas and the PLO, we probably could have told the Arabs to suck sand and keep their stupid oil by now and it wouldn't matter a hill of beans to us who was fighting who over in the middle east...
Other than a stable oil supply, I still don't understand why every president since Carter sees creating "peace in the middle east" as "holy grail" goal of the US presidency. These guys have been fighting over there for thousands of years. Do our presidents really think that other than by invading and useing force that we can make them stop?
Apparently our leaders didn't see too many school yard fights that get broken up by the principal when they were younger....
-------------------- One is never completely useless. One can always serve as a bad example. Posts: 2430 | From: CA | Registered: Jun 2005
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posted
rim, Reagan did it too. i enlisted to go to Tehran and Reagan had the armed forces to do it. he pulled out of Lebanon after the Marine barracks was bombed.
then he sent Rummy to Baghadad and set Sadam into motion against Tehran instead of sending US. That actually "gelled" the Iranian Revolutionary movement.
. we created Sadam, and by doing so? we also solidified the Iranian revolution. it's all on US dude.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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when Bush the First allowed Sadam to remain in power at the end of the Gulf War? We encouraged the Kurds to revolt. That's (to my knowledge) the only proven time when Sadam used chemical weapons against his own people. He was beaten up bad and that was all he had available. There was an incident during the Iran Iraq war, but it's never been determined whether it was Sadam or Iran that did it, and it was never proven who the victims were. Any way we encouraged the Kurds to revolt and promised them assistance and then "bugged out" on 'em.
When the Marin Barracks was bombed in Lebanon Reagan responded by withdrawing, the French were in those barracks too, they responded by bombing. Yet people here get upset when we don't get the backing we believe we deserve? There are real reasons behinds others motives.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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He is and has always been too much of an idealist though.
I only wish the world could work the way he believes it ought to.
And yes, We put ourselves smack dab in the middle of this thing long ago. Doesn't excuse 9-11 but "The West" has done its share of causing hurt over the years as well.
-------------------- No longer eligible for government service due to lack of tax issues. Posts: 5178 | From: Up North | Registered: Dec 2005
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quote:JERUSALEM (CNN) -- After talks with former U.S. President Jimmy Carter, Hamas' exiled leader Khalid Meshaal said Monday the militant group has no plans to recognize Israel.
"We agree on the [Palestinian] state with the borders of June 4, 1967, Jerusalem as its capital, fully sovereign without settlements, the right of return, but without the recognition of Israel," Meshaal said at a news conference in Damascus, Syria.
quote:ATLANTA (Reuters) - Former U.S. President Jimmy Carter on Wednesday accused Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice of not telling the truth about warnings she said her department gave Carter not to speak to Hamas before a Middle East trip.
The State Department has said U.S. Assistant Secretary of State David Welch, the top U.S. diplomat for the Middle East, issued the warning before Carter, a veteran of Middle East diplomacy, went on his trip last week.
Rice said in Kuwait on Tuesday: "We counseled President Carter against going to the region and particularly against having contact with Hamas."
So who is really telling the truth here?
-------------------- One is never completely useless. One can always serve as a bad example. Posts: 2430 | From: CA | Registered: Jun 2005
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quote:Originally posted by SeekingFreedom: All politicians lie...it's the nature of the beast. Carter, Meshaal, Rice...it's what they do.
They have to lie to get enough people with enough clout to back them to get what they want done.
If honesty actually had a place in politics we wouldn't need the politicians.
i was no Carter fan, and i am no Clinton fan, but this answer seems to be the "patent" excuse now, after we've been dealt the biggest "hand" of lies ever seen on the planet by the current admin.
it's simply an excuse.
oddly enough? 4 years ago this summer? i was pointing out to people that Bush lied about WMD and people were saying that the Bush doesn't lie LOL...
but it will be 4 years ago in June that the Presidents report on iraq intelligence came out proving that he had much more evidence than he presented.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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quote:4 years ago this summer? i was pointing out to people that Bush lied about WMD and people were saying that the Bush doesn't lie LOL...
I am not a Bush fan, but he certainly didn't lie about WMD. You, yourself, just said that he used them on the Kurds. In addition, just about every intellegence agency in the world believed that he was trying to develop nuclear weapons and almost ALL OF THE POLITICIANS SAID SO (including President Clinton). They ALL believed the same thing (even before Bush was president).
So, that socialist rhetoric doesn't fly.
Posts: 1577 | From: Ohio | Registered: Oct 2007
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posted
i mispoke, i read the Senate's report first in '04, he lied. the President's report came out AFTER he got re-elected even tho it had been prepared much earlier.
i read it front to back before the '04 elections. it's only a few hundred pages.
here's a link to the Senates report which is "oddly enough" corroborating of the presidents report...
you have this habit of repeating things you're told that just aren't true. the most serious nad provable of the lies were about the verifiability and the quality of the evidence.
the senates report clearly shows that each of the intel lies was single sourced from proven unreliable sources. yet it was not presented that way by Rice Cheney Rummy or Dubya.
after you've read that? go read up on the project for the new American century.
you'll find the Project's plans have caused some rather serious "blowback" (as they refer to it in the intel community)
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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Its all on tape Powell with his thid grade picture drawings.
By the way I have not verified it but in the past people have posted that the gas he dropped on the kurds we sold it to him when we were friends
Posts: 6008 | From: phoenix az | Registered: Mar 2005
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quote:4 years ago this summer? i was pointing out to people that Bush lied about WMD and people were saying that the Bush doesn't lie LOL...
I am not a Bush fan, but he certainly didn't lie about WMD. You, yourself, just said that he used them on the Kurds. In addition, just about every intellegence agency in the world believed that he was trying to develop nuclear weapons and almost ALL OF THE POLITICIANS SAID SO (including President Clinton). They ALL believed the same thing (even before Bush was president).
So, that socialist rhetoric doesn't fly.
PS, it wasn't just a spur of the moment lie either, wait till you see the Sunday Edition of the NYT this weekend...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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quote:i was no Carter fan, and i am no Clinton fan, but this answer seems to be the "patent" excuse now, after we've been dealt the biggest "hand" of lies ever seen on the planet by the current admin.
it's simply an excuse.
People don't want honesty, Glass. That's the problem.
Do you believe people really want to know how bad the economy is? No. They want to know a check is in the mail. Do you think they want to hear that it's their own fault they owe three times their annual income in credit card debt? No. They want to hear about the 'predatory lending practices' of the evil corporate empires. Do you think they want to know how we used other countries to keep war on the other side of the pond instead of in our back yard? No. They want to hear we're helping others attain the freedoms we have.
Truth is; life is ugly, complicated and tough...but that doesn't make a very cool soundbite.
Posts: 1802 | From: Utah | Registered: Mar 2008
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posted
Do you think they want to know how we used other countries to keep war on the other side of the pond instead of in our back yard?
LOL another excuse... man you are full of 'em... this one is rich... you have to do some real pretzel logic exersizes to get this one to work...
sure, Afghanistan needed to be done. and it needed to be finished. still needs to be finished... will still need to be finished after Bush leaves office.. no excuse for that.. none at all..
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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quote: LOL another excuse... man you are full of 'em...
Then kindly debunk them, Glass. A snide remark to dismiss my opinion as baseless is far from a rebuttal.
People in America are guilty of many things, but none more so than apathy. As long as it doesn't negatively impact them, most simply don't care. We are so willing to accept any crap we are fed because we don't hold our leaders to the standards we should.
quote: this one is rich... you have to do some real pretzel logic exersizes to get this one to work...
Really?
Do you believe that the average american gives a damn about whether the former soviet block nations get a missle defense system?
What about Kuwait? What does your average blue collar worker care whether the guy signing the bill of sale on his barrel of oil is kuwaiti or iraqi?
How many americans even know we (and a handfull of U.N. coutries) were the primary source of funding for the Palestinian government? How about the fact that that economic leverage was (and still is) being used to controll them?
We have our hand in dozens of economies through various treaties and use them to protect and maintain our interests in said nations. But to the guy paying for products from those nations, other than 'are they cheap?', what does he care how the cost was brought down?
People want comforting words. That's what lets them sleep at night knowing that someone is taking care of the monsters under the bed. So, that's what the politicians do. Feed us honeyed words and when that fails point fingers at the other guy.
And we allow it go on by re-electing these folk no matter how much they screw us to the wall.
Posts: 1802 | From: Utah | Registered: Mar 2008
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