posted
Have you heard of it? It's a scholarship program for the brightest California high school students regardless of immigration status. So, we are now potentially paying for illegal immigrants to get a college education? What's wrong with us? Is this really the great melting pot that our forefathers envisioned? My opinion? This is wrong and our country is going to hell in a handbasket in short order.
Posts: 5729 | From: Wisconsin | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
Normally my politics are right of center. However, on the issue of illegal immigrants my position is this. Yes, there is a process, a legal process for immigrants to comply with. For years the US government did nothing to mitigate the illegals from crossing the border. Sure the law was there, but not effectively enforced. Build a 40' concrete wall accross the border, patrol with military, shoot to kill violators, enforce the law, make it real. Now, because the governement has neglected to take steps to control the situation, and has allowed this to go on, they are responsible, no, more than responsbile, they are obligated to care for these quasi citizens. They have lifes here, children, who were born here and are REAL citizens now. The parents are illegal, deport them, and who raises the children, the State? Bullcrap! The governemnet should declare amnesty for EVERYONE here, build the wall, patrol the border, shoot to kill. Anyone here illegally with a false identity should be installed to his or her rightful name. If his finances, home, children, ANYTHING are not right the government should furnish ALL legal help for them to straighten out any wrong that was caused by their illegal status, since the government allowed it to happen. Anything illiegal or underhanded someone had to engage in to stay here should be forgiven and cleaned up legally at no cost to them. They should be granted all the rights of any other US naturalized citizen. The governement has the obligation to furnish its people with an enviroment they can live and prosper in. If it means making enforcing a law or a process to protect its citzens from illegal immigration, then they should enforce it, and any failure to enforce it should be remedied by them. Since they let it get to a proported 11 million illegals, they should not be deported or punished, the governemnet should be punished by assisting them to become full productive citizens.
-------------------- A million seconds is 13 days. A billion seconds is 31 years. Posts: 4893 | From: Burbank IL USA | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by will: Normally my politics are right of center. However, on the issue of illegal immigrants my position is this. Yes, there is a process, a legal process for immigrants to comply with. For years the US government did nothing to mitigate the illegals from crossing the border. Sure the law was there, but not effectively enforced. Build a 40' concrete wall accross the border, patrol with military, shoot to kill violators, enforce the law, make it real. Now, because the governement has neglected to take steps to control the situation, and has allowed this to go on, they are responsible, no, more than responsbile, they are obligated to care for these quasi citizens. They have lifes here, children, who were born here and are REAL citizens now. The parents are illegal, deport them, and who raises the children, the State? Bullcrap! The governemnet should declare amnesty for EVERYONE here, build the wall, patrol the border, shoot to kill. Anyone here illegally with a false identity should be installed to his or her rightful name. If his finances, home, children, ANYTHING are not right the government should furnish ALL legal help for them to straighten out any wrong that was caused by their illegal status, since the government allowed it to happen. Anything illiegal or underhanded someone had to engage in to stay here should be forgiven and cleaned up legally at no cost to them. They should be granted all the rights of any other US naturalized citizen. The governement has the obligation to furnish its people with an enviroment they can live and prosper in. If it means making enforcing a law or a process to protect its citzens from illegal immigration, then they should enforce it, and any failure to enforce it should be remedied by them. Since they let it get to a proported 11 million illegals, they should not be deported or punished, the governemnet should be punished by assisting them to become full productive citizens.
Well said and a very good point. But how do you punish the government without in turn punishing us? Again, my opinion is that they should not be eligible for any government grants, programs, etc. How they got here is irrelevant. If they're not legal citizens by college age, they shouldn't qualify.
Posts: 5729 | From: Wisconsin | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
We are the government. Our failure to elect the right people to represent our beliefs is our fault. The fact that 1/2 of US citizens don't vote, and allow these nebishes in office that let it happen need to be punished also. Not only should they be eligible for grants, programs, etc...they should be mandatory that they get assistance. The poeple "you" / "we" elected for decades allowed this to happen, we did it. Now belly up to the bar, and clean up the mess. Forgive and fix what is here, and stem the flow completely. No mas, senior!
-------------------- A million seconds is 13 days. A billion seconds is 31 years. Posts: 4893 | From: Burbank IL USA | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
If you believe illegals should have been stopped from being here, you should have campaigned for the politician that represented that cause. 99% of the people who will argue, "send them back", have no idea who there Congressman is, probably not even their Senators, not alone what they campaigned on regarding immigration laws, if they had a position at all.
-------------------- A million seconds is 13 days. A billion seconds is 31 years. Posts: 4893 | From: Burbank IL USA | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
Government grants and assistance should be available to U.S. citizens, period. Amnesty for illegals because they were brought here as children by their dung heap parents? Nope, can't agree with that. Force them into citizenship before they're eligilble for anything. I agree with you about petitioning the Congressmen and Senators but for the most part, they have no stance on immigration laws. It's an issue that's just starting to simmer.
Posts: 5729 | From: Wisconsin | Registered: Sep 2003
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will tell ya this...in years past? when we hired wets, it really was to get something done. That is---> "take jobs no one else wants."
Now, it's monstrous...many construction sites are over-run. Just finished one where the commercial framers (metal stud) were so sorry, we had to pull off what we were doing, in order to tell them how to do their jobs...in order for *us* to do our jobs. HVAC? same way...
It's so bad on residential jobs, some electricians are rigging switches to mimic "tripped circuit" at the temp pole--just to be able to turn off their radios, running full blast.
The gov't *should* be punished--if the "big boyz" didn't want cheap labor? wouldn't be here...
I *still* say there's a market solution...for instance? part of the problem is they can't come n go as in decades past... Once they sneak in, they dare not risk going back. Meantime? excess dough going *back* to Mexico to fund yet more illegal immigration.
That being said? I absolutely do not blame them for wanting to work here...
posted
It has been an issue for years. Of course, being in the Great State of Wisconsin you're probably issolated from the problem that exists in probably 20 other states and is prevelent in about 10. Not a whole bunch of illegals hiding in lockers when the immigration officials come to cleanse a local factory of these drug heap terrorist who came here to have a decent standard of living. It all comes down to, "WE" allowed it to happen. Build the wall, patrol with military, shoot to kill !
-------------------- A million seconds is 13 days. A billion seconds is 31 years. Posts: 4893 | From: Burbank IL USA | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by T e x: good points, both ways...
will tell ya this...in years past? when we hired wets, it really was to get something done. That is---> "take jobs no one else wants."
Now, it's monstrous...many construction sites are over-run. Just finished one where the commercial framers (metal stud) were so sorry, we had to pull off what we were doing, in order to tell them how to do their jobs...in order for *us* to do our jobs. HVAC? same way...
It's so bad on residential jobs, some electricians are rigging switches to mimic "tripped circuit" at the temp pole--just to be able to turn off their radios, running full blast.
The gov't *should* be punished--if the "big boyz" didn't want cheap labor? wouldn't be here...
I *still* say there's a market solution...for instance? part of the problem is they can't come n go as in decades past... Once they sneak in, they dare not risk going back. Meantime? excess dough going *back* to Mexico to fund yet more illegal immigration.
That being said? I absolutely do not blame them for wanting to work here...
I don't blame them for wanting to work here either Tex. Hell, every year about this time we get them up here harvesting cabbage. As you said, they filled positions that nobody else would want to do. That was accepted and overlooked. Maybe it's hypocritical to say that since it's progressed beyond that point that it is wrong, I don't know. But to hand out government money to someone who is here illegaly does not seem right to me. A student who just missed the honor roll and won't get assistance because an illegal immigrant nudged him/her out is just plain wrong.
Posts: 5729 | From: Wisconsin | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
Tex, I don't care if they listen to radios, and bite heads off of live chickens at lunchtime. That is a different issue called discipline. Behavior is not the issue. ALLOWING THIS TO GO ON FOR DECADES IS THE ISSUE. We as Americans should be ashamed of ourselves for letting it happen and daring to suggest the remedy is disinfrnachising these people. You're right to site exploitation and corporate greed as a backer and motivator for this to have continued so long. So, if the government needs help financing the cleanup, then they should look to the companies that profited from the South of border sweat to make repriration to our NEWEST citizens.
-------------------- A million seconds is 13 days. A billion seconds is 31 years. Posts: 4893 | From: Burbank IL USA | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by will: It has been an issue for years. Of course, being in the Great State of Wisconsin you're probably issolated from the problem that exists in probably 20 other states and is prevelent in about 10. Not a whole bunch of illegals hiding in lockers when the immigration officials come to cleanse a local factory of these drug heap terrorist who came here to have a decent standard of living. It all comes down to, "WE" allowed it to happen. Build the wall, patrol with military, shoot to kill !
The Great State of Wisconsin as opposed to Illinois? It's not about my state or yours, it's about a bill in California. You really believe that an illegal alien should get schooling assistance if he/she is a smidgen above a true citizen on the grade point scale? Absolutely not. I do agree with your wall proposition though.
Posts: 5729 | From: Wisconsin | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
"A student who just missed the honor roll and won't get assistance because an illegal immigrant nudged him/her out is just plain wrong."
It is called competing. Monies should be given out on a level playing field to the brightest STUDENTS, whether they were born here or on the surface of the moon.
Surely US born and raised children have to besmarter than some drug heap's spawn.
-------------------- A million seconds is 13 days. A billion seconds is 31 years. Posts: 4893 | From: Burbank IL USA | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by T e x: good points, both ways...
will tell ya this...in years past? when we hired wets, it really was to get something done. That is---> "take jobs no one else wants."
Now, it's monstrous...many construction sites are over-run. Just finished one where the commercial framers (metal stud) were so sorry, we had to pull off what we were doing, in order to tell them how to do their jobs...in order for *us* to do our jobs. HVAC? same way...
It's so bad on residential jobs, some electricians are rigging switches to mimic "tripped circuit" at the temp pole--just to be able to turn off their radios, running full blast.
The gov't *should* be punished--if the "big boyz" didn't want cheap labor? wouldn't be here...
I *still* say there's a market solution...for instance? part of the problem is they can't come n go as in decades past... Once they sneak in, they dare not risk going back. Meantime? excess dough going *back* to Mexico to fund yet more illegal immigration.
That being said? I absolutely do not blame them for wanting to work here...
I don't blame them for wanting to work here either Tex. Hell, every year about this time we get them up here harvesting cabbage. As you said, they filled positions that nobody else would want to do. That was accepted and overlooked. Maybe it's hypocritical to say that since it's progressed beyond that point that it is wrong, I don't know. But to hand out government money to someone who is here illegaly does not seem right to me. A student who just missed the honor roll and won't get assistance because an illegal immigrant nudged him/her out is just plain wrong.
riddle me this...
unlikely some wetback coalition got that scholarship thing passed. Those poor sumbiches first saw K-Mart clothes right outside their first van ride, somewhere in the desert.
So? Who *is* it that keeps dangling these carrots?
quote:Originally posted by will: "A student who just missed the honor roll and won't get assistance because an illegal immigrant nudged him/her out is just plain wrong."
It is called competing. Monies should be given out on a level playing field to the brightest STUDENTS, whether they were born here or on the surface of the moon.
Surely US born and raised children have to smarter than some drug heap's spawn.
No. Money should be given out to citizens who raised their children here and paid their taxes to support our system. Not to a person who was snuck over the border and has contributed nothing.
Posts: 5729 | From: Wisconsin | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
I told you EXACTLY what I believe regarding illegals. Amnesty, fix their lives. STOP, not stem, interrupt, disrupt, but STOP the flow of new illegals.
THAT IS MY POSITION. Until some illegal cuts my throat, or harms my children that will continue to be my position.
-------------------- A million seconds is 13 days. A billion seconds is 31 years. Posts: 4893 | From: Burbank IL USA | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by T e x: good points, both ways...
will tell ya this...in years past? when we hired wets, it really was to get something done. That is---> "take jobs no one else wants."
Now, it's monstrous...many construction sites are over-run. Just finished one where the commercial framers (metal stud) were so sorry, we had to pull off what we were doing, in order to tell them how to do their jobs...in order for *us* to do our jobs. HVAC? same way...
It's so bad on residential jobs, some electricians are rigging switches to mimic "tripped circuit" at the temp pole--just to be able to turn off their radios, running full blast.
The gov't *should* be punished--if the "big boyz" didn't want cheap labor? wouldn't be here...
I *still* say there's a market solution...for instance? part of the problem is they can't come n go as in decades past... Once they sneak in, they dare not risk going back. Meantime? excess dough going *back* to Mexico to fund yet more illegal immigration.
That being said? I absolutely do not blame them for wanting to work here...
I don't blame them for wanting to work here either Tex. Hell, every year about this time we get them up here harvesting cabbage. As you said, they filled positions that nobody else would want to do. That was accepted and overlooked. Maybe it's hypocritical to say that since it's progressed beyond that point that it is wrong, I don't know. But to hand out government money to someone who is here illegaly does not seem right to me. A student who just missed the honor roll and won't get assistance because an illegal immigrant nudged him/her out is just plain wrong.
riddle me this...
unlikely some wetback coalition got that scholarship thing passed. Those poor sumbiches first saw K-Mart clothes right outside their first van ride, somewhere in the desert.
So? Who *is* it that keeps dangling these carrots?
posted
"YOU" The colective you, has caused this problem. If your only solution is send them back or give them nothing because we allowed them to be here in the first place, then I think Americans should be ashamed of themselves.
-------------------- A million seconds is 13 days. A billion seconds is 31 years. Posts: 4893 | From: Burbank IL USA | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
"So? Who *is* it that keeps dangling these carrots?"
Who profits from their sweat? Follow the money !
-------------------- A million seconds is 13 days. A billion seconds is 31 years. Posts: 4893 | From: Burbank IL USA | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by will: I told you EXACTLY what I believe regarding illegals. Amnesty, fix their lives. STOP, not stem, interrupt, disrupt, but STOP the flow of new illegals.
THAT IS MY POSITION. Until some illegal cuts my throat, or harms my children that will continue to be my position.
And I agree with you, stop the flow. But to just "grandfather in" the ones that are here now is not right. Force them into achieving citizenship before they're eligible to do anything, work, rent a chitty apartment or pick a penny up off the street. Once they've attained citizen status, then they should be eligible for anything that you, I, or our children are.
Posts: 5729 | From: Wisconsin | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
..and that is where we will continue to disagree. They have had to become smarter than most US citizens could ever hope to be just to make it through a day. Not only do they have to work to achieve their limited goals, they are exploited, and have to remain clever enough to stay here. They have to do everything any other working person does, but only with the added burdens of exploitation and the threat of being deported. Great life.
-------------------- A million seconds is 13 days. A billion seconds is 31 years. Posts: 4893 | From: Burbank IL USA | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by will: "So? Who *is* it that keeps dangling these carrots?"
Who profits from their sweat? Follow the money !
Pretty obivious Tex, similar to the sweatshops of the olden days that sparked the labor unions. So do we go after the farmers who hire them, the manufacturers who hire them? There's no simple answer other than what Will said, stop the flow. He and I just disagree on the status of the ones already living here illegaly.
Posts: 5729 | From: Wisconsin | Registered: Sep 2003
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Like that is a mystery to you? It's been going on in this country for over 200 years, it is the new form of slavery. Corporate America exploits these people for its own personal gain and profit.
Send them back, give them nothing, right. Who will do their work?
quote:Originally posted by T e x: rhetorical?
nope...
for whatever reason, big money/big power wants 'em here
-------------------- A million seconds is 13 days. A billion seconds is 31 years. Posts: 4893 | From: Burbank IL USA | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by will: ..and that is where we will continue to disagree. They have had to become smarter than most US citizens could ever hope to be just to make it through a day. Not only do they have to work to achieve their limited goals, they are exploited, and have to remain clever enough to stay here. They have to do everything any other working person does, but only with the added burdens of exploitation and the threat of being deported. Great life.
So because they're so crafty bacause they're illegal (even though it might be no fault of their own) they should be afforded all the rights and privilages of an actual U.S. citizen? Don't you think they should at least have to pass the citizenship test before being granted these perks?
Posts: 5729 | From: Wisconsin | Registered: Sep 2003
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Peeps who hire? why...they've been shown it's OK to do so...
ICE said on radio today--here, locally--they could bust all the illegals on job sites that they wanted to bust...
But? "Our resources are limited--we're focused on criminal element."
In other words? Illegal and working "straight" jobs is OK...
Ok, it's allright to hire them? Is that your opinion because there are few punishments handed out for doing so? What's the answer then? Allow it? Impeach Bush because of course it's all his fault? What?
Posts: 5729 | From: Wisconsin | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
Well, I'm going to bed. Hope that some part of my bed, sheets, or blanket was able to be made due to some hard workng illegal immigrant that "you" let be here, and now want to punish for your lazy ass shortcomings.
-------------------- A million seconds is 13 days. A billion seconds is 31 years. Posts: 4893 | From: Burbank IL USA | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by will: Well, I'm going to bed. Hope that some part of my bed, sheets, or blanket was able to be made due to some hard workng illegal immigrant that "you" let be here, and now want to punish for your lazy ass shortcomings.
They weren't, they were imported from China. That's a whole different topic.
Posts: 5729 | From: Wisconsin | Registered: Sep 2003
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