posted
Knonopin is a narcotic MM, it is highly addictive. Yes, it can be used to treat seizures as many narcotics can, it is still a narcotic regardless of it's targeted treatment. Let me ask you, what is the dosage and how often do you take it? On your bottle it says OD, BID, TID, QID or HS, it can also appear in any combination of those with the addition of HS. There are other possibilities, but those are the most common. It can be ordered as a PRN {as needed} but not as likely outside of a clinical setting.
Yes MM, Lamictal is used to treat Bipolar disorder, the second I saw you were on it, I knew what your "other" diagnosis was, but left it to your discretion to divulge that. It is considered a mood stabilizer with antidepressant properties. Your Dr. should be monitoring you closely while you are on it, especially noting any complaints, especially after your on it for 18 months. Lexapro is an SSRI which means it is a Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitor, and consequently one of the drugs I do not care for. Why? In a nutshell what this drug does is increase the amount of serotonin in your Central Nervous System by not allowing any to ever leave the CNS. Every day we produce minute amts. of serotonin, but some...SOME...people...very...very few, cannot keep a high enough level of it in their CNS, resulting in depression. What do we do? We create a drug that can keep it from leaving the CNS, assuring an ever increasing amount. Do all depressed people need it? HELL NO!!! Take someone off it suddenly, the level of serotonin crashes, and the result can be disastrous. Understand MM that you should NOT stop taking it suddenly. Should you and your physician ever decide that you should stop taking it, do so under his direction.
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bezodiazepams work on a completely different neurotransmitter system, the GABA receptors...
as do xanax....valiums...and lots of othere...
not good stuff... but the only person MM should be talking to about this is a real doctor... no offense meant magick, but lots of people are actually helped with medication, and playing around with dosageses adn withdrawal at home is a bad idea Munchie...
if he had seuzures? he would NOT be prescribed oxycontin for them... they are not interchangeable...
klonopin is commonly prescribed for seizures...
and? if he had diabetes? nobody would be accusing him of being addicted to insulin...
[ August 07, 2006, 21:09: Message edited by: glassman ]
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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posted
It would be more true to say opiates are narcotics.
For amphetamines are narcotics as well, they are not an opiate. Barbituates are not opiates and they are narcotics.
Knonopin is no more a narcotic than valium, that is true.
A drug being labeled a narcotic points to it's addiction potential. They are all considered addictive, but even within the group known as narcotics, some are considered more addictive than others.
"but the only person MM should be talking to about this is a real doctor... no offense meant magick, but lots of people are actually helped with medication"
You have no idea how acutely I am aware of that
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society places certain negative values to words like narcotic...
this leads to a lot of social misunderstanding...
addiction is not simple.... self image is tied up in this... as a health care professional you must be aware that many people don't take their meds because of self image problems. this is the only reason i bring it up...
an anesthesiologist would tell you that a narcotic has an affinity for a certain specific group of receptors...
the DEA recognises cocaine as a narcotic ( chemically incorrect)... and opoids...
other drugs fall into other categories...
opoids are schedule two and three and bezodiazepams are schedule four...
coacine? schedule two.... are cannibinols narcotics in your book? the DEA classifes them with heroin, but....
i've never seen methamphetamine or bariturates described as a narcotic except by law enforcement....
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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Definition of Narcotic:An addictive drug, such as opium, that reduces pain, alters mood and behavior, and usually induces sleep or stupor. Natural and synthetic narcotics are used in medicine to control pain.
What the DEA considers a narcotic and what the medical profession considers a narcotic can be two different things, yet boundaries do cross. Methamphetamine (crystal meth, crank) is not dispensed by the medical profession but amphetamines are.
Cannibis can be dispensed by the medical profession and cocaine, in both cases they are treated as a narcotic, they must be signed for in a narcotic log book, and the amount remaining must be counted by two medical professionals, every single shift, by the professional leaving the shift and the one coming onto it. At least in this country.
"i've never seen methamphetamine or bariturates described as a narcotic except by law enforcement..."
In October 1956 the Expert Committee on Addiction-producing Drugs of the World Health Organization was presented with evidence that the consumption of barbiturates continued to increase and the situation in respect to this group had not ameliorated. The Committee held that barbiturates were habit-forming and in some circumstances could produce a drug addiction dangerous to public health, although it recognized that differentiation among the barbiturates with respect to the intensity of this liability could not yet be made. The Committee reasserted the opinion that national control measures were sufficient at that time, but that they needed close attention and in some instances definite strengthening:
barbiturates, whatever the dose or admixture, should be dispensed only on prescription;
a prescription should specify the number of times it may be refilled or repeated;
there should be a record of such prescription. "1
The Commission on Narcotic Drugs at its twelfth session in April/May 1957 adopted a resolution on the abuse of barbiturates.2 It recalled its former discussions on the danger involved in such abuse, and recalling also that, contrary to the common opinion, the greatest social danger presented by barbiturates does not arise from acute poisonings (in spite of their frequent occurrence), it noted the definition given by the World Health Organization. Barbiturates were subject to special control in some countries only, and the Commission recommended therefore that all governments take the appropriate legislative and administrative measures of control to prevent abuse.
At its seventeenth session, the Commission adopted a resolution (Res. 4(XVII)) in which it recalled its resolution VI of the twelfth session, considered the social dangers and the danger to public health arising from the abuse of barbiturates as reported by the World Health Organization, and recommended that governments should take appropriate steps to place the production, distribution and use of such drugs under strict control.3
They are considered a "controlled" narcotic.
Amphetamines:
In 1954 the World Health Organization Expert Committee on Drugs Liable to Produce Addiction had recommended that governments should provide for the dispensing of amphetamines only on prescription; each prescription should specify the number of times it might be refilled or repeated and a careful record should be kept of each prescription. 4
At its tenth session in 1955, the Commission on Narcotic Drugs discussed the possibility of including amphetamines among the drugs to be controlled under the proposed Single Convention, but it felt that the control measures at the national level as recommended by WHO would suffice for the time being, since it could not be said that these drugs were addiction-producing in the same sense as morphine or cocaine.5
At its eleventh session in 1956, the Commission adopted a resolution on the amphetamines problem. It recalled its preceding discussions, considered the increase in cases of poisonings by amphetamines in many parts of the world, the number of accidents and even deaths due to the abuse of amphetamine-based proprietary medicines designed to control the appetite, considered the serious consequences of the abuse of stimulating amines and the psychic troubles caused by these drugs, and found that they possessed properties which made them analogous to addiction-producing substances. In view of the fact that these drugs had already been submitted to special control in some countries while they were sold without control in others, the Commission went on to take note of the dangers arising from their abuse and to recommend that governments should provide measures of control to prevent such abuse.6
They are "controlled" narcotics as well.
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posted
hadn't seen the WHO stuff.... Definition of Narcotic:An addictive drug, such as opium, that reduces pain, alters mood and behavior, and usually induces sleep or stupor. Natural and synthetic narcotics are used in medicine to control pain.
i guess it's a much broader definition? pain isn't the defining factor, only addiction?
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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posted
The definition is attempting to cover both aspects of a narcotic.
If one prescribes an amphetamine for obesity, there is no pain involved, but an addictive narcotic still is.
Neither is there pain involved if one prescribes a narcotic for anxiety, but an addictive narcotic still is.
Narcotics for the control of epilepsy...no pain.
etc...etc...ad nauseum
With a narcotic the addictive propensity is ever present...always.
Pain alleviation is not the defining factor at all. Many narcotics do not alleviate pain. They are just stating the fact that narcotics are used to control pain. They probably should have stated it like this..."Many narcotics are useful in controlling severe pain."
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posted
"i have always believed the medical community and the law enforcement community are not working toward the same goals..."
They are not.
"because of that? each therefore developed language to suit their "needs"..."
Glaringly apparent when it comes to lawsuits.
"i did notice that Webster even includes alcohol as a narcotic..."
And should be labeled as such. There was an attempt at controlling it once, wasn't too successful.
"never spent any time aropund psychiatric people tho..."
Have spent plenty, don't regret a single moment, I find them fascinating. It's the so-called sane people I can't stand...LOL
"addictive narcotic then? it sounds redundant"
It is, but I used it to emphasize the point I was trying to make. I'm allowed poetic license:)
I would like to add though. You can see and become adept at knowing which ones must be the more powerfully addictive. For example, many psych patients like Ativan...a lot, they will pull stunts because they know they will get a juicy injection of it if their "bad" yet it is not considered as addictive as say xanax or valium. In fact many will have klonopin, xanax or valium ordered as a standing order, they get it automatically, they don't care, they want that refrigerated clear stuff, even if it means getting a needle. If they become obvious in their attempts to obtain it, we change the order to something more benign like haloperidol, maybe a little thorazine. Before you ask, it is illegal to give a psych patient a placebo, unless it is part of a study and then the patient must be completely aware that at any time something their getting could be one.
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posted
"never spent any time around psychiatric people tho..." Have spent plenty, don't regret a single moment, I find them fascinating. It's the so-called sane people I can't stand...LOL
i meant the doctors and nurses (care givers)....
i've spent most of my life around the patients or shall we say patient "candidates"
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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posted
the only synthetic opiate I am aware of is Methadone. developed by the Germans, during WWII (where most of the 20th and 21st century technology was developed).
they had limited access to the Opium poppy, as with everything else. like the Morphine dose in every first-aid kit in the field pack of US soldiers, the German soldier as well needed to be equipped with an acute pain killer. today Methadone is prescribed for it's pain killing properties only 10-15% of the time (mostly to recovering opiate-dependants, to avoid addictive relapse). the rest of the time it is prescribed in the 'treatment' of opioid dependency, and has had mixed reviews.
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The Munchkin Man would like to thank each and every one of you for weighing in on this discussion.
It has been very interesting, and the Munchkin Man deeply appreciates your contributions.
Hi MagicK. You asked:
"Let me ask you, what is the dosage and how often do you take it?" _____
The Munchkin Man takes three 0.5 mg wafer tablets 3 times a day. Those are the kind that dissolve on your tongue. The schedule is one in the morning or afternoon and two at bedtime. _______________________________
Whether Klonopin is a true narcotic or not, the Munchkin Man does agree upon one thing.
Klonopin is addictive.
The Munchkin Man has never heard of a benzodiazapene that is not addictive.
Please allow the Munchkin Man to provide a little more of his past history.
Back in the 1990s, the Munchkin Man's doctor had the the Munchkin Man on Xanax. Over a period of about 3 years, the Munchkin Man built up tolerances to the doses he was taking.
As a result, the Munchkin Man's doctor kept increasing his doses. Eventually, the Munchkin Man's doctor had the Munchkin Man taking six 1.0 mg tablets a day. Those are the blue ones.
And eventually, even that dose stopped working.
The Munchkin Man knew he had a problem. For this reason, the Munchkin Man made an appointment with an addictionologist for a second opinion.
He told the Munchkin Man that 6 mg of Xanax daily was a very high dose. He said that an attempt to get off this drug on your own was very dangerous and could cause a seizure.
The Munchkin Man knows what it feels like to go without Xanax for a day. Your face feels like it is covered with several inches of hard cement that is about to explode.
Opening your mouth feels like pulling on a coiled wire, much like setting a mousetrip. Closing your mouth feels like the mousetrap snapping shut.
The recommendation of the addictionologist was as follows:
Admission for 6 weeks in the drug and alcohol treatment center in a local hospital.
The Munchkin Man "fired" his other doctor and took the advice of the addictionologist.
The addictionologist was able to wean the Munchkin Man away from the Xanax through a gradual substitution and tapering regimen with Valium.
Speaking of Klonopin, the Munchkin Man has heard that some doctors like to wean their patients from Xanax with a Klonopin substitution.
Please allow the Munchkin Man to go on a tangent. The Munchkin Man felt a lot of "bad vibes" toward him from some of the other patients and even some of the other nurses during his stay in the hospital.
The Munchkin Man was the only patient in the drug and alcohol treatment ward who reached his state of addiction by taking a prescription drug and taking it exactly as described.
All of the other patients were addicted to alcohol and/or the commonly known street drugs, such as heroin, cocaine, and so on.
The only other exception was another doctor who was busted for forging prescriptions for himself for Vicodin.
In any event, some of these patients and nurses (but not all) treated the Munchkin Man as somewhat of an outcast, assuming that the Munchkin Man felt he was "superior" to them because he never became a street drug addict.
As the Munchkin Man sees it, the Munchkin Man's addiction was the natural outcome of taking the Xanax, exactly as prescribed, over a period of years, and with increased dosages.
Part of the Munchkin Man's treatment plan, as it was for all of the patients there, was to attend daily AA and NA meetings.
NA = Narcotics Anonymous
The Munchkin Man felt out of place in those meetings too. For example, the Munchkin Man would sometimes listen to a speaker at an NA meeting go on a major rant about how one should not even take a couple of Tylenol for a headache, while smoking a cigarette at the same time.
Isn't smoking a cigarette more harmful than taking a couple of Tylenol for a headache?
The Munchkin Man saw this as a contradiction and asked a fellow addict about it.
His response:
"Yes but cigarettes aren't mood altering."
Oh. Okay.
Back to the main discussion.
Getting off the Xanax wasn't easy. For months after the Munchkin Man was released from the hospital, the Munchkin Man would experience weird pinwheel sensations and electronic like brain zaps. It took a long time for that to go away.
The Munchkin Man did not relapse. After the Munchkin Man was released from the hospital, the Munchkin Man went 8 years without taking any psychotropic drug whatsoever.
Then a combination of crises intervened in the Munchkin Man's life which caused him a tremendous amount of anxiety.
Both of the Munchkin Man's parents were diagnosed with cancer with less than a year to live. The Munchkin Man's principal where he taught was trying to fire him.
The Munchkin Man knew he needed help again. So the Munchkin Man went to a new clinic and began to see both a counselor and a doctor.
This is how the Munchkin Man got on the Klonopin, Lexapro, and the Lamictal, after 8 years of being free of psychotropic drugs.
The Munchkin Man knows better than to try to go off these drugs on his own. In fact, the Munchkin Man plans to go see another doctor for a "second opinion" very soon.
The Munchkin Man has grown dissatisfied with his current doctor. He does not pay attention to the Munchkin Man. He wheels around in his chair and staightens out piles of file folders on his floor while the Munchkin Man is talking. Sometimes he even talks on the phone.
He is not the same doctor the Munchkin Man started out with at this clinic. The Munchkin Man's first doctor was much better. He listened to the Munchkin Man and maintained eye contact the entire time. Unfortunately, he moved away.
To summarize the Munchkin Man's current medications:
Klonopin: Three 0.5 mg wafers per day
Lexapro: One 10 mg tablet per day at bedtime
Lamictal: One 100 mg tablet per day at bedtime
The Munchkin Man feels it is time to seriously start thinking about weaning away from these drugs. But not on his own.
If the Munchkin Man's "second opinion" tells him to check into another drug and alcohol treatment center of a hospital, the Munchkin Man is prepared to accept and follow through with this suggestion.
So this is where the Munchkin Man is at right now.
Thanks again for all of your comments and feedback. Please feel free to keep the discussion going.
posted
hey egg inspector glad to see you are back...
Fentanyl is an opioid analgesic, first synthesized in Belgium in the late 1950s, with an analgesic potency of about 80 times that of morphine. It was introduced into medical practice in the 1960s as an intravenous anesthetic under the trade name of Sublimaze. Fentanyl has an LD50 of 3.1 milligrams per kilogram in rats. The LD50 in humans is not known. Fentanyl is a Schedule II drug.
this stuff or a closely related derivative was apparently what the Russian special ops teams used to retake the theatres when chechen terrorists took several hundred hostages.
it is SPECULATED that a gaseous form of fentanyl was used to aneshetise everybody while the assault team would have been treated with Narcan ( AKA Naloxone, a drug used to counter the effects of opioid overdose, for example heroin and morphine overdose.)
to "protect" them from the effects of the synthetic opoid (i will try to use the proper terms now magick) quite a few peopel died, but more were saved... the Russian govt was not very forthcoming with details as you can imagine... since the specualtion is that the deaths were from overdose, which is very easy on fentanyl...
EMT's treating heroine addicts with Naloxone have been assualted.... the action is often within seconds..
quotes like "you ruined my high" are common...
the poor EMT's only response is usually, "well you stopped breathing, so we had to do something".....
quote:Originally posted by glassman: BTW, that's interesting; about the mis-behaving to get medicated...
how do you end up deciding upon a treatment plan? observe, and then observe more?
i'vee seen thorazins and halperodol's long-term effects...might as well just pith 'em if you ask me...
You have to take into account each individual's current psychiatric diagnosis and current dominant symptoms. Also their current level of health, current medications, psychiatric history, drug abuse history and of course any allergies. How well you "know" them comes into play as well, as many psych patients are "frequent flyers" as we call them, meaning they have many psych admissions. If you know them, then it's easy, we most likely have had to do it before. If you don't, then the second it becomes obvious they are "med seeking" there will be a thorough going over of all their current medications to see what can be changed. Almost 100% of the time, it is a narcotic they are seeking. We will change it to something that is not a narcotic but that will produce a powerful effect if needed. These patients will act out, some of them...big time. From attempting to do serious harm to themselves (I have seen it all, things I have seen them do to themselves would make most people puke) to throwing chairs, pulling pictures off walls, hitting another patient, trying to hit you, yelling, slamming doors, completely overturning their rooms...etc...etc... When they find out their meds have been changed they often freak out completely. They usually will have to be restrained, tied to a bed with a four point restraint, sometimes five if they keep trying to sit up. You will be spit on, kicked, bitten, punched, cursed at...you name it. But, nine times out of ten, after it gets through that they are not getting that drug again, you will see no more "bad" behavior. Quite miraculous.
As far as Haldol and CPZ's long term effects, yes they are nothing short of horrible. But, as a PRN for calming someone down they can prove invaluable. If a pt. already has a standing order for either, then the length of time they have been on them would play an important part. In the case of Haldol, age is especially a factor, as it's negative effects do not manifest in young people readily. If a pt. is already on them or has been for years, a larger dose MAY be given IM (intramuscularly) instead of PO (by mouth) sometimes though, again taking into account all things about the patient, another drug would be used altogether.
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quote:Originally posted by MagicK: Munchkin Man, I will respond to your post as soon as I can, but I have to go out for a bit, will shoot for tonight but cannot promise.
You have said much I would like to comment on.
________________________
Hi MagicK,
Thanks.
No rush.
Take your time.
The Munchkin Man is just happy that you are willing to have a dialogue with him.
The Munchkin Man tried to be as honest and thorough as he could with with respect to his history of psychotropic drugs.
Oh yes, in your reply to Glassman, you mentioned Haldol.
Believe it or not, that doctor the Munchkin Man had in the 1990s had the Munchkin Man on that one too. The Munchkin Man had forgotted about that one.
The Munchkin Man's addictionologist was horrified when he found out about that one. He cited a number of its side effects, including Tardive Dyskinesia.
Here's another one the Munchkin Man just remembered.
Ambien.
Every day the Munchkin Man was taking:
6.0 mg of Xanax + Ambien + Haldol
The Munchkin Man does not recall the dose levels of Ambien and Haldol he was on.
These are the drugs the Munchkin Man had in his system when he was admitted to the hospital.
The Munchkin Man will be looking forward to your reply, whenever you find the time.
quote:The Munchkin Man takes three 0.5 mg wafer tablets 3 times a day. Those are the kind that dissolve on your tongue. The schedule is one in the morning or afternoon and two at bedtime.
OK, I would consider this "normal" dosing for anxiety. 0.5mg OD - 1mg. HS sublingually
quote:Whether Klonopin is a true narcotic or not, the Munchkin Man does agree upon one thing. Klonopin is addictive.
MM...Klonopin is a narcotic, that is a fact. I have given more Klonopin, to more people than you would see in your entire lifetime if you were to continue at your present dose and lived to be a hundred. Still don't believe me? Ask your pharmacist. Yes, it is addictive.
quote:Back in the 1990s, the Munchkin Man's doctor had the the Munchkin Man on Xanax. Over a period of about 3 years, the Munchkin Man built up tolerances to the doses he was taking.
As a result, the Munchkin Man's doctor kept increasing his doses. Eventually, the Munchkin Man's doctor had the Munchkin Man taking six 1.0 mg tablets a day. Those are the blue ones.
And eventually, even that dose stopped working.
The Munchkin Man knew he had a problem. For this reason, the Munchkin Man made an appointment with an addictionologist for a second opinion.
He told the Munchkin Man that 6 mg of Xanax daily was a very high dose. He said that an attempt to get off this drug on your own was very dangerous and could cause a seizure.
The Munchkin Man knows what it feels like to go without Xanax for a day. Your face feels like it is covered with several inches of hard cement that is about to explode.
Opening your mouth feels like pulling on a coiled wire, much like setting a mousetrip. Closing your mouth feels like the mousetrap snapping shut.
The recommendation of the addictionologist was as follows:
Admission for 6 weeks in the drug and alcohol treatment center in a local hospital.
The Munchkin Man "fired" his other doctor and took the advice of the addictionologist.
The addictionologist was able to wean the Munchkin Man away from the Xanax through a gradual substitution and tapering regimen with Valium.
Speaking of Klonopin, the Munchkin Man has heard that some doctors like to wean their patients from Xanax with a Klonopin substitution.
This is something your average person is blissfully unaware of. An "outside" Dr. puts a pt. on an ever increasing dose of a narcotic. Next thing you know for any one of a hundred different reasons relating to the super high dose, the pt. finds himself being admitted to a psych facility, after visiting a regular general hospital where they find out about the pt's psych history and rush him off to a detox ward in a psych hospital. Because of their psych Dx. and because the "addiction" is prescription related they will be put on an age appropriate ward where they will be detoxed. The frequency at which this happens is all, all too high. Draw your own conclusions. Sorry to see you had to go through this MM. An admission to a facility that was completely avoidable is reprehensible IMO, there should be an accounting for it.
Yes, for anyone reading this who is on a narcotic, sudden cessation CAN and often WILL, result in seizure activity. Yes MM, often one narcotic will be used to detox one from another.
Sorry to hear about your parents MM.
If you feel like your present Dr. is not helping you and is indifferent towards you, it would be a very good idea to seek another. There should be no reason whatsoever for you to enter back into a facility for detox, on your present dosage. But, if you feel you no longer need to be on anti-anxiety medication, discuss this with your new physician and there will be an attenuation of your present dosage. As far as your other two medications are concerned, discuss your feelings about them with your new Dr. also, and see what he says. I would advise you, as sensitive as you are to be aware of how this new Dr. makes you feel right off the bat. Do not stop until you find one that feels "right" to you.
"6.0 mg of Xanax + Ambien + Haldol"
Regardless of the dosages of the other two, there had to be a high degree of sedation, few people can tolerate all three of those without obvious signs of sedation. The average person would be unable to walk.
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The Munchkin Man would like to thank you for taking the time to write back to the Munchkin Man and for your words of kindness and support.
Words alone are insufficient to express the magnitude of the Munchkin Man's appreciation and gratitude.
You wrote:
"MM...Klonopin is a narcotic, that is a fact. I have given more Klonopin, to more people than you would see in your entire lifetime if you were to continue at your present dose and lived to be a hundred. Still don't believe me? Ask your pharmacist. Yes, it is addictive." _____
The Munchkin Man is not doubting you at all. It's just that the Munchkin Man is not accustomed to hearing Klonopin being classified as a narcotic.
The Munchkin Man had previously believed there was a clear distinction between the opiates and the benzodiazapenes. _____________________________
You wrote:
"Sorry to see you had to go through this MM. An admission to a facility that was completely avoidable is reprehensible IMO, there should be an accounting for it." _____
The Munchkin Man agrees with you.
Sometimes the Munchkin Man thinks that these addiction professionals are a little bit too overzealous in their "crusade" to fight the disease of addiction.
Case in point. During the Munchkin Man's hospital stay, there was a fellow in there who was kicking heroin. He was highly motivated in doing so and finally tested "clean."
However, he also needed some type of major surgery and was told that some type of post-operative narcotic would be recommended to deal with the pain.
Now then. In light of this, the addictionologist had scheduled this fellow for another six-week stay in the drug treatment facility of the hospital.
His rationale was something like this:
"Once you're an addict, you're always an addict. And even though a post-operative narcotic may be recommended for only a short period of time, you WILL become addicted again and relapse back into heroin."
In the opinion of the Munchkin Man, this is premature to the extreme and gives the field of addictions medicine the appearance of being a "racket."
What do you think? __________________________________
You wrote:
"Sorry to hear about your parents MM." _____
Thanks.
One thing the Munchkin Man will always be thankful for was the opportunity to hold his father's hand during his last dying breath, say good bye, and wish him a peaceful journey. This took place at home, where he was receiving hospice care.
The Munchkin Man did not get the same opportunity with his mother. She passed away in a nursing home. The Munchkin Man had already been approved for a leave of absense from his teaching job to visit his dying mother and was planning to drive up to see her first thing on a Monday morning. Unfortunately, she passed before the Munchkin Man got there.
One thing the Munchkin Man has learned that you never completely "get over" the grieving process. Nor should you try.
You have to get over it enough to be able to function and be a productive human being. That's what your parents would want.
In addition, the grieving process does not have to consist of all sadness and remorse. It can and should include moments of celebrations of positive memories. ______________________________
You wrote:
"If you feel like your present Dr. is not helping you and is indifferent towards you, it would be a very good idea to seek another. There should be no reason whatsoever for you to enter back into a facility for detox, on your present dosage." _____
Thanks. That's a relief to hear. The Munchkin Man would prefer not to go through that again. ________________________________
You wrote:
"But, if you feel you no longer need to be on anti-anxiety medication, discuss this with your new physician and there will be an attenuation of your present dosage." _____
As the Munchkin Man continues to heal and move on with his life, the Munchkin Man is experiencing a decreasing need for his Klonopin. The Munchkin Man desires to get off this drug over a period of gradual dose reduction, under the supervision of a new physician. ________________________________
You wrote:
"As far as your other two medications are concerned, discuss your feelings about them with your new Dr. also, and see what he says. I would advise you, as sensitive as you are to be aware of how this new Dr. makes you feel right off the bat. Do not stop until you find one that feels "right" to you." _____
That sounds like excellent advice. Sometimes the Munchkin Man tends to blame himself when he meets a new doctor with whom he feels uncomfortable. The Munchkin Man has learned to trust his instincts and to act accordingly.
It's kinda like going to a shoe store and trying on a new pair of shoes that don't feel right. Sometimes a sleazebag shoe salesman will come up with a line like:
"Oh, you'll grow into them. You just have to break them in."
Bull!
If those shoes don't feel right immediately, they are not for you. They are only going to feel worse over time.
The Munchkin Man used to fall for this a lot when he was in his early twenties.
The Munchkin Man will close for now by thanking you for your heartfelt words of advice, candor, kindness, and support.
quote:Originally posted by glassman: hey Munchie? when did you start writing in the subjective case anyway?
i'm not sure which is more interesting... you're consistent use of it or everybody elses reaction to it...
__________________________
Hi Glassman!
The Munchkin Man would like to thank you for your inquiry.
The Munchkin Man first started to notice the late onset of his Third Person Communication Disorder (TPCD) right around December of 2004. By May of 2005, the condition had become full blown.
Although the Munchkin Man has posted this link on this site before, there might be a newbie or two who might be interested in some further background.
The following is an opening excerpt of a few paragraphs, which have been cut and pasted from the link above. _____
Greetings To All:
As a lot of you know, the Munchkin Man's posting style on the Morningstar Forums begun to undergo a radical transformation a few months ago. A lot of posters here have commented extensively on this change.
For this reason, the Munchkin Man has decided that he owes his fellow Morningstar posters a full and complete explanation for this change. In the unfortunate event that the Munchkin Man becomes banned again, he would like to have left with this explanation on the record.
When the Munchkin Man first joined Morningstar's Premier Service and began to post on the Morningstar Forums over one year ago, he utilized the traditional first person style. Then several months ago, his style began to gradually switch over to one of a third person style.
This was due to the late onset of a very rare disorder known as Third Person Communication Disorder (TPCD).
For reasons unknown, this disorder is indigenous to the Munchkin family ancestry. It has afflicted just about all of the males from the family lineage.
For most males, it tends to first start developing in their 40s. In the Munchkin Man's case, it did not start until his 50s. For the Munchkin Man's older brother, who currently lives in Harlem, New York City, he was first hit with it during his late 30s.
You will not find any literature in any of the psychiatric journals in regard to this rare disorder. However, the Munchkin Man's nephew is a licensed clinical psychologist, who has been lobbying with the American Psychological Association for years to add this disorder to the latest edition of the DSM Manual.
END OF EXCERPT. ____________________________
Indeed, a lot of people have a great deal of discomfort and/or distaste for the Munchkin Man's disorder.
There are many who believe it is all an act, and that it does not exist. The Munchkin Man accepts this and understands this.
Some people are able to get over their distaste and discomfort with this disorder and begin to like the Munchkin Man. The Munchkin Man has made a number of new friends this way.
Others never get over their discomfort or distate with this disorder and never like the Munchkin Man.
The Munchkin Man has accepted all of this.
There are times when the Munchkin Man gets depressed over this.
When the Munchkin Man does get depressed over this, the Munchkin Man goes over his gratitude list of all the things he is thankful for and blessed for. Sometimes the Munchkin Man will add something else to his list.
Then the Munchkin Man feels better.
Thanks again for your interest and inquiry in regard to the Munchkin Man's disorder.
quote:Originally posted by glassman: hey Munchie? when did you start writing in the subjective case anyway?
i'm not sure which is more interesting... you're consistent use of it or everybody elses reaction to it...
__________________________
Hi Glassman!
The Munchkin Man would like to thank you for your inquiry.
The Munchkin Man first started to notice the late onset of his Third Person Communication Disorder (TPCD) right around December of 2004. By May of 2005, the condition had become full blown.
Although the Munchkin Man has posted this link on this site before, there might be a newbie or two who might be interested in some further background.
The following is an opening excerpt of a few paragraphs, which have been cut and pasted from the link above. _____
Greetings To All:
As a lot of you know, the Munchkin Man's posting style on the Morningstar Forums begun to undergo a radical transformation a few months ago. A lot of posters here have commented extensively on this change.
For this reason, the Munchkin Man has decided that he owes his fellow Morningstar posters a full and complete explanation for this change. In the unfortunate event that the Munchkin Man becomes banned again, he would like to have left with this explanation on the record.
When the Munchkin Man first joined Morningstar's Premier Service and began to post on the Morningstar Forums over one year ago, he utilized the traditional first person style. Then several months ago, his style began to gradually switch over to one of a third person style.
This was due to the late onset of a very rare disorder known as Third Person Communication Disorder (TPCD).
For reasons unknown, this disorder is indigenous to the Munchkin family ancestry. It has afflicted just about all of the males from the family lineage.
For most males, it tends to first start developing in their 40s. In the Munchkin Man's case, it did not start until his 50s. For the Munchkin Man's older brother, who currently lives in Harlem, New York City, he was first hit with it during his late 30s.
You will not find any literature in any of the psychiatric journals in regard to this rare disorder. However, the Munchkin Man's nephew is a licensed clinical psychologist, who has been lobbying with the American Psychological Association for years to add this disorder to the latest edition of the DSM Manual.
END OF EXCERPT. ____________________________
Indeed, a lot of people have a great deal of discomfort and/or distaste for the Munchkin Man's disorder.
There are many who believe it is all an act, and that it does not exist. The Munchkin Man accepts this and understands this.
Some people are able to get over their distaste and discomfort with this disorder and begin to like the Munchkin Man. The Munchkin Man has made a number of new friends this way.
Others never get over their discomfort or distate with this disorder and never like the Munchkin Man.
The Munchkin Man has accepted all of this.
There are times when the Munchkin Man gets depressed over this.
When the Munchkin Man does get depressed over this, the Munchkin Man goes over his gratitude list of all the things he is thankful for and blessed for. Sometimes the Munchkin Man will add something else to his list.
Then the Munchkin Man feels better.
Thanks again for your interest and inquiry in regard to the Munchkin Man's disorder.
Good luck to you.
Best Wishes,
Munchkin Man
LOFL...
munchie? PLEASE describe the circumstances under which the term Third Person Diss.. Order first became aware to you...
-------------------- Nashoba Holba Chepulechi Adventures in microcapitalism...
IP: Logged |
The Munchkin Man would like to thank you for your inquiry.
You asked: _____
"munchie? PLEASE describe the circumstances under which the term Third Person Diss.. Order first became aware to you..." _____
The Munchkin Man would be more than happy to try to answer this question for you.
In regard to when the Munchkin Man first became aware of the actual term "Third Person Communication Disorder" and the alphabet soup that goes with it (TPCD), this was the doing of the Munchkin Man's nephew, who is a licensed clinical psychologist.
Please allow the Munchkin Man to quote another excerpt from the Morningstar essay, for which he provided a link to, earlier in this thread: ______________
"You will not find any literature in any of the psychiatric journals in regard to this rare disorder. However, the Munchkin Man's nephew is a licensed clinical psychologist, who has been lobbying with the American Psychological Association for years to add this disorder to the latest edition of the DSM Manual.
So far his efforts have been met with failure, and at times, ostracism and ridicule from his peers and colleagues. To make matters worse, he suffers from this disorder as well. Indeed, this has been a terrible curse and a scourge for the Munchkin family history." __________________
If the Munchkin Man's memory is correct, it was somewhere in the late 1990s when the Munchkin Man's nephew first coined the term for this disorder, as well as its acronym.
The Munchkin Man will email him and ask him if he can come up with a more precise time frame. If he keeps a diary, he might even be able to come up with a precise date.
What the Munchkin Man's memory is more clear about is when the Munchkin Man's nephew first told him about the term he had coined for this disorder. It was during a Munchkin family Christmas party in 1999.
As the Munchkin Man described earlier, the Munchkin Man came down with this disorder later in life than most males of the Munchkin family lineage.
In fact, the Munchkin Man was actually hoping to be the first to break the chain and escape this disorder. It didn't happen.
Like most people, the Munchkin Man felt uncomfortable being around his older male relatives who had already come down with this disorder.
A lot of adolescents go through a phase in which they are embarrassed and ashamed of their parents. So was the Munchkin Man.
This was especially acute when the Munchkin Man's friends would come over when the Munchkin Man's father was home, as he would speak to them in the third person.
One day, the Munchkin Man finally asked his father if he would please go upstairs to his private den and smoke his pipe. and do what else ever, whenever the Munchkin Man's friends were going to come over. He agreed to do so.
It's not easy growing up as a Munchkin.
Then comes that dreaded moment when you first notice this disorder hitting you. It's really scary.
You try to speak a first person pronoun, and your voice freezes up. You try to write down a first person pronoun, and your pen or pencil freezes up. You try to type out a first person pronoun and your fingers freeze on the keyboard.
Due to the Munchkin Man's wishful thinking and denial that he would ever come down with this disorder, the Munchkin Man's first reaction was that he was having some kind of a stroke or a seizure.
The Munchkin Man rushed himself to the ER of a local hospital, where the Munchkin Man stayed for the rest of the day and overnight for testing and observation.
All of the Munchkin Man's tests came out negative, and the Munchkin Man was released the next day. That's when the Munchkin Man "knew" that he had finally come down with this disorder. The Munchkin Man could deny it no longer.
Adjusting to this disorder has been a growing process. At times, it has been an agonizing and painful one. But the Munchkin Man is determined to plow through it and try to do the best he can, taking it one day at a time.
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