The National Socialist Party was a global threat with a genocidal program. So what kind of image does the title: “Kingdom Coming: The Rise of Christian Nationalism evoke? Just what is Christian Nationalism supposed to be?
According to Salon.com senior writer, Michelle Goldberg, Christian Nationalism is a real threat facing America, and her purpose is evidently to warn everyone of the danger before our not-too-far-off American krystalnacht.
"Across the United States, religious activists are organizing to establish an American theocracy. A frightening look inside the growing right-wing movement."
A few days before Bush's second inauguration, The New York Times carried a story headlined "Warning from a Student of Democracy's Collapse" about Fritz Stern, a refugee from Nazi Germany, professor emeritus of history at Columbia, and scholar of fascism. It quoted a speech he had given in Germany that drew parallels between Nazism and the American religious right. "Some people recognized the moral perils of mixing religion and politics," he was quoted saying of prewar Germany, "but many more were seduced by it. It was the pseudo-religious transfiguration of politics that largely ensured [Hitler's] success, notably in Protestant areas."
It's not surprising that Stern is alarmed. Reading his forty-five-year-old book "The Politics of Cultural Despair: A Study in the Rise of the Germanic Ideology," I shivered at its contemporary resonance. "The ideologists of the conservative revolution superimposed a vision of national redemption upon their dissatisfaction with liberal culture and with the loss of authoritative faith," he wrote in the introduction. "They posed as the true champions of nationalism, and berated the socialists for their internationalism, and the liberals for their pacifism and their indifference to national greatness."
Fascism isn't imminent in America. But its language and aesthetics are distressingly common among Christian nationalists. History professor Roger Griffin described the "mobilizing vision" of fascist movements as "the national community rising Phoenix-like after a period of encroaching decadence which all but destroyed it" (his italics). The Ten Commandments has become a potent symbol of this dreamed-for resurrection on the American right. ~Salon.com
Hateful and bigotted as I am, (let's not forget racist and anti-semetic too (except that my great grandfather on my mother's side was a Goldberg, by the way, from upstate New York-- but then Hitler had jewish heritage too didn't he...) but I digress), I still get a kick out of the kind of self-righteous and smug view that all the unwashed evangelical masses are somehow plotting to create a fascist christian state and force all the godless liberals to convert to christianity. There is some truth to that, but not, I think, in the way this author believes.
There is a definite edge to Goldberg's writing-- it's evident that this is a real fear in her mind.
What I think is highly ironic is that, incredibly, we are asked to see the threat of terrorism as a made-up war, a concocted scheme in order to create fear in the population so that they can be more easily controlled. And instead we are to believe that your next door neighbor, if they be one of these extreme fundamentalist Christians, are the second-coming of Hitler-- or at least the beginning of the second-coming of Hitler.
Still, it's worth noting that thousands of Americans nationwide have flocked to rallies at which military men don uniforms and pledge to seize the reins of power in America on behalf of Christianity. In many places, local religious leaders and politicians lend their support to AVIDD's cause. And at least some of the people at these rallies speak with seething resentment about the tyranny of Jews over America's Christian majority. ~Salon.com
if genocide is not really happening in in Iraq now? there are still 60 to 100 humans dying every day... i hear so many people saying "better there than here" and it IS not the Dems.....
the thing is? there just aren't very many terrorists dying... the people dying are just everyday people... and? the terrroists we are supposedly fighting over there? well? they weren't terroists before we went there.....
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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Let me twist that question jest a teensy tiny little tad......
If we hadn't invaded, those people in Iraq wouldn't be dying and loosing eyes and legs and ears......
So, whose fault is it?
And all because dubya told lies to start a war so he could distract the public from investigation the 2000 election fraud any further.
Wasn't the Democrat's election rigging that he was trying to keep from showing? Must have been the republicans, then.
How does it feel to be in lock step with a party that is responsible for killing tens of thousands of Iraqis every year and maiming multiples of that. Not killing them off because they are Europeans or Negro or American, but because they aren't. They are Arab and Moslem and Iraqi and don't count and because dubya and Jeb and Rove wanted to hide their election fraud.
It's genocide, whatever brought it to be. And it will be until it is stopped.
Posts: 11304 | From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: and? the terrroists we are supposedly fighting over there? well? they weren't terroists before we went there.....
America is a country I love and unfortunately all my friends here don't like America anymore (US gov, not Americans) after they decided to go to war... Lots of other people "changed" their views about America in the same way, as can be illustrated by the numerous anti-war protests we've seen all around the world. By going to war hatred against the American government grew worldwide, and thŕt is far more dangerous than Saddam has ever been to the western world. THAT in my opinion is one way to CAUSE terrorism, RIGHT THERE! It's a state of mind, something you can't destroy with guns and bombs. In fact, by doing that you're pi$$ing a lot of people off and that only makes things worse, it doesn't solve anything
I'm not an expert, I don't know how this mess can be solved... all I know is that lots of people are dying, and when people die it's not like a political scandal you hear about on the news, this is REALLY SERIOUS, we talk about DEATH here, INNOCENT lives being destroyed, families torn apart, and I'll never support any war because of that. All this pain and evil does not destroy terrorism, it strengthens it (imo)
It's amazing however, just how apathetic a lot of us who don't witness all of this directly, have become after we hear for the 200th time "a car bomb in Baghdad killed 50 people". Death doesn't move us any more when we're not confronted with it directly... my grandfather told me about the horrors of WW2 that happened here, and I've honestly heard enough to feel confident in my beliefs. I'll NEVER support war
[ August 01, 2006, 21:02: Message edited by: Hannibull ]
Posts: 1091 | From: Brugge, Belgium / Dallas TX USA | Registered: May 2006
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What I think is highly ironic is that, incredibly, we are asked to see the threat of terrorism as a made-up war, a concocted scheme in order to create fear in the population so that they can be more easily controlled. And instead we are to believe that your next door neighbor, if they be one of these extreme fundamentalist Christians, are the second-coming of Hitler-- or at least the beginning of the second-coming of Hitler.
-------------------- Thanks Matto. Thanks Juice. Posts: 2945 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2006
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Glassman- So let me get this straight.... because terrorists are resisting our invasion and killing citizens of Iraq, it becomes the US's fault for being there? Do we leave the terrorists no choice but to kill citizens? I don't think so.
-------------------- Thanks Matto. Thanks Juice. Posts: 2945 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2006
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I guess I should ask Gordo then- which part of this article are we supposed to be focusing on? My post above was merely a cut and paste from the article he posted.
-------------------- Thanks Matto. Thanks Juice. Posts: 2945 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2006
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John Wayne A relegious right person is not a bad person so to say and I really believe he believes in the way of Chist until it gets to the part that he does not like. And that is making his or her beliefes the law of the land and that is where it ends with me that makes them no better than the people they were fleeing from in Europe and making a new home in the new world.
It may interest you to know that a lot of the founding fathers were none believers or I will say church goers for political reasons.
Posts: 6008 | From: phoenix az | Registered: Mar 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Johnwayne: Glassman- So let me get this straight.... because terrorists are resisting our invasion and killing citizens of Iraq, it becomes the US's fault for being there? Do we leave the terrorists no choice but to kill citizens? I don't think so.
terrorists are resisting our invasion?
LOL... re-read your own statement...
ask yourself what you would do if Illinois Natl. Guard decided to invade Iowa?
i am not ani-war. i am anti-stupidity...
i have given you the evidence of the plans, and if you can't see the failure of the plan? it's because you don't want to...
history is plain.. nobody has ever accomplished Bush's goals withot utterly destroying the will of the conquered nation... genocide...
that's why we dropped the Bombs on Japan... they recognised genocide was imminent... and capitulated.. Nazi Germany? they were destroyed as a culture...
you keep trying to attribute other peoples theories to me.. this is and has been my postition since i realised we were not being welcomed as liberators and there were no WMD's..
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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It's not the resistence I have trouble understanding. Ask yourself this, let's say Iowa invaded Mississipi. Would you kill your next door neighbor in an effort to stop the invasion or to sway public opinion back in Iowa ?
-------------------- Thanks Matto. Thanks Juice. Posts: 2945 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Johnwayne: It's not the resistence I have trouble understanding. Ask yourself this, let's say Iowa invaded Mississipi. Would you kill your next door neighbor in an effort to stop the invasion or to sway public opinion back in Iowa ?
see? you admit have no clue what's really going on over there.... and Cheney? he admitted as much over and over again...
the problem is the "terrorists" we are fighting over there right now are neighbors killing each other...
the admin kept saying these are foreoign fighters for the longest time, but they could never produce more than a couple bodies or captives to prove it... look it up... dead men do tell tales... there were SOME, but very very few...
lots of foreign money tho....they sent money from all over the mideast to fund the "insurgents"...
i am pragmatist... i have analysed as much data as i could find, and i came to my own conclusions...
zarqawi? he was there when we invaded.... ALONE...LOL one man...and he was dufus.. LOL really incompetent...
nobody ever said different either...
the "terrorists" war we are seeing right now? that's the same as if Illinois DID invade Iowa...
that's what's going on, and Bush SR KNEW and wrote about it...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Johnwayne: the "terrorists" war we are seeing right now? that's the same as if Illinois DID invade Iowa...
So what you are saying is that Iraqi's are not killing Iraqi's?
those are both US States aren't they? Iragis are killing Iraqi's? YES!!! that started as soon as we got there too..remember the looting? sheesh...
Shia are killing Sunni, kurds are raiding into Turkey...the kurds raids into Turkey are a real problem.. and LOOK? i support the idea of the Kurds having their own nation, but the Turks won't buy it...
this is a repitition of history...
Bush never studied it.. and the neo-cons just had so much greed they wanted to believe they could do something else... that "something else" was cast aside over a year ago.....
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Johnwayne: So what you are saying if Illinois invaded Iowa and Iowans began killing eachother, that it is Iowa's fault for invading in the first place?
LOL.....
anybody who picks up a gun and pulls the trigger is responsible for where the bullet goes...
even if it's a shotgun in Texas?
or a Tomahawk from a guided missile cruiser in the Persian Gulf...
i am not anti-war JW... i am anti-stupidity... we've seen enough stupidity for several lifetimes since '00 and i suspect we are gonna see worse soon...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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As far as the war goes I will puy my 2 cents in. If we had no ther reasons to be in Iraq besides to stop weapons of mass destruction from being used on us and the world , to pay saddam back for 9/11 which he did not do,and let the people of Iraq determin there own future. Then it looks like mission accomplished. Anf there is no more reason for us to be there part as friends and buy oil from them.
Posts: 6008 | From: phoenix az | Registered: Mar 2005
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yes, the Iraqi's are determining their own future alright.... we have to stay until they can get along and play nice? never.... thats why they had a dictator, and that's why sadam was a dictator...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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On the contrary, I think many here love America as much as I do, and hate to see our great country hijacked by the Bush regime. The things they are doing in America's name should fill any thinking person with outrage.
quote:Originally posted by Hannibull: America is a country I love and unfortunately all my friends here don't like America anymore (US gov, not Americans)
-------------------- "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
- Benjamin Franklin Posts: 3898 | Registered: Dec 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Johnwayne: So what you are saying if Illinois invaded Iowa and Iowans began killing eachother, that it is Iowa's fault for invading in the first place?
You might as well be talking about the little green guys from mars attacking the purple ones from Pluto and laying the blame on the pink fat ones from the moons of Jupiter. It's nonsense.
It is quite clear he never said anything that can be construed, even by twisting and bending or other distortion, into what you are declaring he said.
Can't you get over the desire to place assinine nonsense in the middle of a serious debate whenever you can't get capitulation by simple bull headed determination to declare Bush is right.
Posts: 11304 | From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
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Why does anyone still support this war that is killing more and more American troops and innocent Iraqis by the day, is costing billions and billions of dollars, and has only increased terrorism?
-------------------- "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
- Benjamin Franklin Posts: 3898 | Registered: Dec 2005
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Ask an iraq citizen if they are glad that saddam is out of power. I am sure the answer would be "YES". What is the answer? Do we tuck our tails and run like cowards. Hell NO!! Islamic extremist are much like hitler. Hitler wanted to take over the world just like Islamic extremist. They are not confined within a border. They are every where....Iran, Iraq, syria, Somalia, France, India, Turkey, Belgium, London, Egypt, US! Just to name a few places. We cant sit here and wait for them to come and repeat another 9/11. We have to go and kill them before they come here and kill us. Its pretty simple. Everyone of us Americans are disposable to them. If they had nuclear capabilities they would have used them on 9/11. If we do nothing Iran will make sure they have nuclear capabilities. The left says use diplomacy. Thats BS. You cant bargain with terrorist!! I want democraps to come up with an alternative plan. They bash Bush and bash Bush, but have no answers. Thank God John Kerry, Howard Dean, or any other Democrat is not our President. This is why this is a great country...we all can have our own opinion.
Posts: 1178 | From: Mobile, AL | Registered: Aug 2005
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