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Author Topic: I'm sure ya'll read this
jordanreed
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http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10740935/
Big Brother IS watching!!!

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jordan

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glassman
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international mail?

not a big shock...
i think US customs has always had the right...

i actually like the fact that they openly idnetified it as "checked"... i doubt that it would have been so labeled if there were suspicious conditions... and the PI is definitley a hot spot....
if the same guys mail keeps getting checked? then i might become concerned that he was being singled out for harrassment and being "monitored"

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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jordanreed
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youre right ---this has been going on for awhile and is perfectly legal... something i didnt know however

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jordan

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timberman
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University profs are suspicious people to begin with.
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glassman
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timber i agree, they think too much....

and have too much power over our kids...

not only that? but they are always "begging" for money thru the granting process...

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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bdgee
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And wasting out money with useless "research", like that physics guy they fired at the University of Texas back in the 20s that claimed he could make mutations in fruit flies with that crazy "X-ray" thing. Every body knows all that mutation stuff is a code word for evolution and he was obviously a communist.
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glassman
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yeah, God forbid that one of those suspicious fellows would discover cold fusion or room temperature superconductance with that wasted govt welfare social spending....
why ,that would just totally upset the economic "status quo"

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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bdgee
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Or transisters so that one day all the super ultra conservatives could have desk-top computers to post narrow minded anti-liberal backward claims that everything that isn't pure white and Anglo-Saxon is communist welfare programs.
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Dustoff 1
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bdgee, I am interested about something I think may explain your expieriances and thoughts abouts Republicans....

Something cought my attention while working stocks the other night.. There was a program on the history channel about the Klu Klux Clan.

The way the clan took over the GOP in the 20's and 30's was mind boggeling..And basicly they took control of the Country.

The corruption of the Senate and House by the Clan was a national past time [ a kind of sick sport ]..

As an Old time Texas Democrat did you ever tangle with these folks? The number of so-called elite that were members of the Clan is absolutly incredible..

Did you ever feel the Clan was behind the Assanation of JFK?

Few present day Americans have any idea how powerful the Clan was in American politics..

AND IT WAS'NT just the South.

[ January 07, 2006, 08:36: Message edited by: Dustoff101 ]

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bdgee
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Dust...,

My political affiliations do not fall into such easilly labelled categories. I spent many years wandering about Austin and, like anyone that has, my whole approach to anything political is that it only is acceptable if it functions to provide for and protect "the people" (notice I, like the Constitution of the United States, do not say "the citizens"). There is nothing worthy in any political movement, organization, group, etc., that demands or professes or speaks of anything like "party loyalty" that is there to benifit (or in the long run to lead to benifit to) "the people" and, thus, is anything I approve of, in whole or in part.

Specifically, I can absolutely assure you that Lee Oswald was NOT a part of any conspiracy (or cooperative effort or movement or plot or whatever that involved any person other than himself) ever in his life. Lee Oswald was genetically bound with a character that made him incapable of even recognizing the intellectual "mingling" neccessary to such an effort, which, quite obviously, requires a social participation that was fundamentally lacking in his personality. To all that would ascribe to him the ability to have participatedd in any conspiracy (even one totally membered by the facets of personality of a single person) I say this: You are hopelessly ignorant of facts....Lee Oswald couldn't, as he proved over and over throughout his life of failure, fathom "team work". Put that one axiom before your constructions and it violates every other conclusion you have made(or can make) that would place Lee Oswald in any plot or plan to achieve some goal, whatever it was.

Thus, as it is blunty clear that the finger that pulled the trigger that sent the bullet that killed Kennedy was Lee Osswald's, it becomes impossible for that to have been guided by any entity other than Lee Oswald. And that includes the KKK!

Yes, you are right about the enormous influence the KKK has had in our politics. And you are correct that it isn't strickly a Southern phenomenon, even though that has been the popular belief of the public, probably because the press only presented it to them in that way.

Today one doesn't have to reach far back into the published declarations or speaches of KKK leaders to find their bigotry and hateful rhetoric, not quite word for word, but close to it, is being passed on to the public as new ideas and awareness under the guise of a "Christian political awareness" by Ralph Reed and other political cronies of the religious extremist far right (note that he is probably the one person most closely tied to both Abramoff and Delay). It's still the same tripe it was in 1970 and 1960 and 1950 and - - - and it's still dangerous.

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glassman
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OK, bdgee... you say Oswald acted alone....

you may have noticed i get a little "testy" when peeps call me a liberal...

part of the reason for that is that i thouroughly enjoy shooting rifles...
not pistols, not shotguns, but rifles, i do shoot the pistols and scatter guns , but they don't have the same kinda precsion potential FOR ME that the high velocity cartridges do......


any way? i got a little problem with the actual shots.... it was too friggin good....especially from a chump like oswald

not impossibly good, but nearnuff...
i've made some "impossible shots" myself.... but you see i do it with high quality 'quipment, not italian (sorry Vincenzo) junk....

the shots he made that day were eyinfriggincrayeduble, so i will always be somewaht skeptical...

am i gonna argue about it without a belly fulla whiskey? nahhh... but still skeptical

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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bdgee
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I have fired one of those Italian rifles a couple of times. (Can't spell that name, though.) I have not fired but one of them, but that one (in exactly the shape it was delivered from the mail order house for less than $20) certainly was sufficiently accurate (and more) to do what Lee Oswald did that day and I can assure you he had the ability to handle it well enough.
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glassman
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wasn't it three shots tho? thats where it gets tricky.... one offs on a bolt aren't that big a deal..
very few people can run the bolt and track a moving target at the same time...


plus? without extensive sniper training? anybody would have major nerves... esp. with the target he chose...

once again? i'm not saying i have an opinion on any conspiracy issues....just questioning the shots

for fun? i use 20 power and 24 power scopes and shoot wire, sometimes we set it up swinging like a pendulum...
but multiple continuous shots are something learned in combat situations....

to mess with minds? i sometimes set up bottels or cans hanging on a string and shoot the string instead of the bottle... the first time people scoff... after three or four? the betting stops [Big Grin]

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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Gordon Bennett
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Re: JFK

You might find this interesting.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/jfkcasket1.html

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"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a
little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

- Benjamin Franklin

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bdgee
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Glass,

I certainly know the supposed difficulties of manipulating a bolt action fast enough to track fire and hit target three consecutive times, even if the target is in motion.

I am familiar with Dooley Plaza and the School book depository and know the distances and angles that were involved.

I knew those bits of information when, with two boxes of shells bought at Jake Petmecky's on Congress in downtown Austin and the new owner of a duplicate mail order Italian rifle to the one used by Lee oswald, I ventured into the hills west of town to test the notion that neither the accuracy of such a weapon nor a normal rifle shot were up to the task Lee Oswald was supposed to have accomplished.

That new owner was mostly inexperiencesd at handling a rifle and, in addition, due to damage by scarlet fever at the age of three, was quite spastic. It took him to a fourth trial before he was able to manipulate the mechanism within the time and perhaps another 2 or three times before he could, within the time, hit the target consistantly. We didn't figure a way to duplicate the movement of the car that carried Kennedy that day, but at that distance, it's movement along a smooth paved street would have not added appreciable difficulty. (For further information, I had no problem with the mechanism or hitting the target within the time, but when a deer appeared and scampered across the hillside into the brush about 125 to 150 yard away, I emptied the magazine without hitting the animal.)

Again, I can assure you Lee Oswald was more than the equal of an average rifle shot and I cannot imagin him suffering from buck fever, particularly after having messed up his previous attack on Walker by being hasty. Lee Oswald sincerely believed he was "placed" among us to "guide" us......he had no reason to be nervous.

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glassman
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well, like i said, i don't have any real opinions on the various conspiracy theories here....

helluva set of shots.... still gonna hold some skepticism on it [Big Grin]
definitely changed the course of history....

interesting note? my earliest verifiably dated memory was seeing his casket on the caisson....

i was three...

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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glassman
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Officer J. D. Tippit had very likely heard the general description of the alleged shooter (based on the statement of witness Howard Brennan who had seen Oswald in the window of the Depository from across the street) which was broadcast over the police radio at 12:45 pm. Thirty minutes later Tippit encountered Oswald near the corner of Patton Avenue and 10th Street and pulled up to talk to him through his patrol car window. Tippit then got out of his car and Oswald fired at the police officer with his .38 calibre revolver. Four of the shots hit Tippit, killing him instantly in view of several witnesses. [18] Oswald reloaded his revolver as he walked away, throwing the empty shell casings into some bushes. At least a dozen people either witnessed the shooting or identified Oswald as fleeing the scene. A cab driver hiding behind his taxi heard Oswald mutter "poor dumb cop" or "poor damn cop" as he walked by. Oswald then broke into a run, still holding the pistol in his hand. Moments later, Oswald dropped his jacket in a parking lot. Officer Tippit's service revolver was found under his body, out of its holster.

if this account is reliable? then i would have to agree that he was capable of controlling his nerves...
reloading on the spot before walking away would indicate good discipline...

4x18 scope tho.... still hard to jack the bolt and track the moving target...

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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T e x
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wrote a short-short story about it, ie, reacting to the news...I was in fourth grade, with a crush on my pretty red-haired teacher, Miss Ferguson. A girl with a weight problem burst out crying--suddenly, in the middle of class. Her last name was Kirkpatrick...

Roger that, on the shots, Glass...

plus? despite *all* the so-called explanations, I still can't "get" the backward motion, given a punch from the back...

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Nashoba Holba Chepulechi
Adventures in microcapitalism...

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bdgee
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That's a sad memory to be an earliest.

My own earliest is of sitting in the bed beside my paralized grandmother while she told me stories. I don't know how old I was, only that she died when I was about 1 1/2 yeas old.

I also remember (and believe it was later) standing looking out the back screen door as a tornado stripped the sheet metal covered barn that was maybe 40 yards behind the house away. I recall being facinated rather than scared and I couldn't understand why my mother shook so and wouldn't (maybe couldn't) explain to me what it had been.

At night, my grandfather would stand me on the arm of his chair and sip his "toddy" while teaching me to recite poetry and admonishing me to never trust a man that wouldn't smoke a cigar or that wouldn't have a beer before bed time. I still recall line or two from one poem: "The boy stood on the burning deck, Eating peanuts by the peck." I remain skeptical of male tea tottlers and those that refuse a good cigar.

Those are all very good memories.....not sad.

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T e x
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beedge...check this, an offshoot of "Casabianca":

http://www.authorama.com/half-past-seven-stories-12.html

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Nashoba Holba Chepulechi
Adventures in microcapitalism...

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bdgee
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That backward motion is the normal reaction to puncturing a hard shelled liquid filled sphere with a high velicity object. It's a simple matter of being careful with the use of Newton's preservation of momentum. The excited liquid presurizes much faster than the object can move through and exit the opposite side and the pressure forces the liquid to "jet" out the entry hole.

Watch closely the next time someone shows, from the side, a rifle shot hitting a watermellon......much more of the ejeculate blows toward the shooter than away fromn him. By the time the bullet reaches the back wall of the mellon, the pressures have already released through the front hole (and, usually" has cracked open the entire mellon rind). Note also that there is no "punch from (the side of the rifle)" effect visable to move the mellon away from the shooter. The magnitude of the force of the penitration is negligible, much as the needle the nurse uses to give you a flu shot doesn't move you away from the nurse.

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IWISHIHAD
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I could see Oswald doing it himself, if he spent a little time mastering the rifle, which I am sure he did. He spent 3 years in the Marines, so he had some training.
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glassman
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That's a sad memory to be an earliest.

you know, i never really thought of it that way...
a flag-draped casket on a caisson is not a common sight... EZ to place... wouldna seen it any other time...

but you're right...

that and gowing up inside the beltway? living at "ground zero" my whole childhood? i definitely grew up skeptical of the system....

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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bdgee
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Good link, Tex. Thanks!
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T e x
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Beedge, I "get" the "pieces" blowing back---but *not* the watermelon...

for instance, when my ol' Daddy first took me out with the shotguns? *made* me shoot a watermelon...after the mess, he looked me the eyes and said, "That could be your Daddy's head."

Safety lesson aside, the melon did *not* move back toward me. Another? At deer camp, we used to sight in on various vessels full of water (easier to see a hit, as they flew offa the tree stump)--sure, some water and bits of vessel "blew back"--but the vessel itself was propelled foward, away from the shooter....

*******

IWISH, you're right--cain't overlook the Marines' angle

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Nashoba Holba Chepulechi
Adventures in microcapitalism...

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glassman
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At night, my grandfather would stand me on the arm of his chair and sip his "toddy" while teaching me to recite poetry and admonishing me to never trust a man that wouldn't smoke a cigar or that wouldn't have a beer before bed time. I still recall line or two from one poem: "The boy stood on the burning deck, Eating peanuts by the peck." I remain skeptical of male tea tottlers and those that refuse a good cigar.


heh, you're not old enough to Sam Clemens grandspawn are ya? [Big Grin]

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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T e x
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quote:
Originally posted by bdgee:
That's a sad memory to be an earliest.

My own earliest is of sitting in the bed beside my paralized grandmother while she told me stories. I don't know how old I was, only that she died when I was about 1 1/2 yeas old.

I also remember (and believe it was later) standing looking out the back screen door as a tornado stripped the sheet metal covered barn that was maybe 40 yards behind the house away. I recall being facinated rather than scared and I couldn't understand why my mother shook so and wouldn't (maybe couldn't) explain to me what it had been.

At night, my grandfather would stand me on the arm of his chair and sip his "toddy" while teaching me to recite poetry and admonishing me to never trust a man that wouldn't smoke a cigar or that wouldn't have a beer before bed time. I still recall line or two from one poem: "The boy stood on the burning deck, Eating peanuts by the peck." I remain skeptical of male tea tottlers and those that refuse a good cigar.

Those are all very good memories.....not sad.

we're gonna have to start a different thread, fellllaz, lol...

poetry? I can *see* my "Momma Nellie" in her long "nightclothes," straight from the 19th-century, musta been late 70s-early 80s...RISE UP from her chair in the living room...and start reciting poetry! RHYME...that made sense, not mere nursery-room jingles...but great heroic stories....

How wonderful to be exposed to that, as a young child...

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Nashoba Holba Chepulechi
Adventures in microcapitalism...

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glassman
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for instance, when my ol' Daddy first took me out with the shotguns? *made* me shoot a watermelon...after the mess, he looked me the eyes and said, "That could be your Daddy's head."

did the same with mine, used a .223 hollow point tho...same effect...

he wanted me to do it again [Wink]

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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T e x
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quote:
Originally posted by glassman:
for instance, when my ol' Daddy first took me out with the shotguns? *made* me shoot a watermelon...after the mess, he looked me the eyes and said, "That could be your Daddy's head."

did the same with mine, used a .223 hollow point tho...same effect...

he wanted me to do it again [Wink]

ya--.223 is f-a-s-t...go to hollow-point, that's some shock, for sure...


hey, did you ever check out "The Old People"?

**********

for you language buffs, just posted a nice link in the current music thread...

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Nashoba Holba Chepulechi
Adventures in microcapitalism...

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bdgee
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Dad used a .22 and canteloup because his daddy wouldn't contribute one of his prize watermellons to the cause. I was 7 and dad, fresh home from the Marines and still wearing his uniform pants because that was what he had, resumed his fatherly duties.. Later that year, after passing over and over test of the the rules that all boys got back then about guns, I was allowed to venture out with the .22 on my own.

It was a year later before I was allowed to go alone with my grandfather's 12 guage. He "granted" me the use of all the shells I could easily hold in one hand, which was three. That afternoon, when I arrived back at the house with a dove and a cotten tail, they made very light of my accomplishment, as I should have , at least, as many slain beast as I had spent shells.

Even so, I knew I had stepped into a new world that belonged to men more than boys. I hadn't yet begun to understand the responsibility commensurate with that newly earned social status, but I was ready to accept it, even not knowing it was there. And, when later I did come to recognize what I still owed in return for that promotion, I felt privileged and honored that they measured me worth of the responsibility.

I cannot become comfortable in circles where there is some notion that firearms safety must be or canonly be learned from some legally appointed "authority". That sort of thinking conflicts with what I feel is the right, and even more, the responsibility, of the adult males in the community....fathers, brothers, uncles, neighbors, barbers....... It is akin to making boys treat women folk properly. It's a thing that a boy should learn because it is part of becoming a gentleman, which should be aquired before he reaches full grouth.

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glassman
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.223 is one of the slower rounds i shoot anymore...
stopped shooting the 7 mm mags and .300's cuzza shoulder surgery..
25-06 and i really like my .17 Remington Mag...

that's not the rimfire .17 that's a .223 necked down to the size of BB gun...

25 ottt comes out even faster on light lead.. thats a 30-06 necked to .257
basically taking almost 2/3 of the weight off a standard 30-06 deer round....'bouta mile a second [Big Grin] real flat trajectory... not much power left after 350 yds tho...

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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T e x
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grew up with 30:06, that was Dad's favorite, 'cuz it was so versatile. As I recall, we used a 180-grain that was on at 25-yards...and therefore on again at 100-yards...

I was commendable at those ranges, nice off-hand pattern...no rest, no scope, but in the "zone." The men I grew up with were staunch "one-shot, one-buck" proponents...realizing of course that the ideal is not always reality...

Me? I was more "natural" with a Remington 1100 for a shotgun (carry an 870 now, to get away from blown seals) and an 8-inch barrel .357--my uncle was a pistol instructor in the Marines, and somehow his lessons "took."

But my old Daddy? you and he woulda talked rifles all night--they *still* talk about him and a South Texas rancher getting up a bet on ducks 400 yards away (this was late 40s, early 50s) and Daddy decapitating a mallard at that distance...

(an aside to others who may stumble in here: we never killed anything we were'nt gonna eat--unless it was sumpin that would eat us...)

ya, Glass--you rifle guys...different deal, lol

I can hang, but I wouldn't bet on myself clipping a wire...

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Nashoba Holba Chepulechi
Adventures in microcapitalism...

Posts: 21062 | From: Fort Worth | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
glassman
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30 ott is the best all-around rifle...

7 mag is too hot for deer at under 150 yards...

tell ya what tho? 7 mm mag can be loaded to have more "hit" at 500 yards than a .45 auto does at point blank....

i don't kill nuttn i won't eat neither...

lessn' it's after my chickens [Big Grin]
don't mess with my chickens [Wink]

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
T e x
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7 mag? lol, we hunted with a father-son Indian pair, name a McCurtain...the son carried one of those "cannons"--we could hear him anywhere on 3,000-acre lease...

"yup, there's Greenwood--hope he's got some meat left."

but, yeah, that was the deal on the 30-ought...can be loaded for a wide variety of situations...now, the straight 7mm has great ballistics... what it is? 7.57 or sumpin like that? in it's day, was considered "perfect" ???

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Nashoba Holba Chepulechi
Adventures in microcapitalism...

Posts: 21062 | From: Fort Worth | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
glassman
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there are a lot of different 7mm varieties..

7 rem mag is one of em that is hot... as i heard it they were the first to come out with the extra heat... but you know how "gun lore" is

weatherby has their own, its hot too, but why pay extra for the name?, they don't chamber for each other...

i can't recall for sure if its .280 or .284...

the 57? you are thinking of is probably the 25-06 it uses a .257...

i had a .257 Roberts ( thats one of the early "wildcat" loads) custom built on a mauser action once... i actually got it for the scope, it was an antique J Unertl 12X.... kept the scope and sold the rifle....

there are even 30-06 sabot loads now... plastic jacket drops off the round... they have 'em down even lighter than the 25-06....
down to 55 gr. , the 25 otts i shoot are 70 gr.

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
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