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Author Topic: What does everyone think about the detainee swap?
CashCowMoo
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Obama breaks his own laws on notifying congress? He just does what he wants to see what he can get away with.

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glassman
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dunno about this one.
if that was my nephew or son they brought home, i'd prolly be happy.

the prisoners we traded away? they can now be droned. they had to be 'protected' from danger while they were in our custody.

the claim that we don't negotitate with terroists was always a lie. we got peace (sortof) in Iraq by doing it, and we got control of Afghanistan in just few months when we first arrived there by doing it.

as to what laws obama broke or didn't break? well i guess we'll find out if he actaully did or didn't at the impeachmnet proceedings...

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NR
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The stuff I am reading suggests he intentionally deserted and renounced his citizenship. If it's true, then he is no longer a soldier or American citizen and he should be designated an enemy combatant and locked up in Guantanamo.

As for Obama? How many times can the president do whatever he wants without the normal checks and balances before Americans realize the Executive Branch of our government is completely out of control?

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CashCowMoo
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When his fellow soldiers in his old unit want him in Leavenworth something is up. Thats who I want to hear from. The friends and family, not the mouthpieces in DC spinning praises and propaganda.

liberals are out there saying this is a fake scandal like Benghazi. Really? How many scandals are there right now? How many more are on the way?

Everyone knew this was going to happen with this guy, but if you talked like that you are a racist. Nice to see how the terrorists that were released are moving around Qatar freely.

Why would the President do this? There is new stuff coming out that the soldier actually helped train the taliban.

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CashCowMoo
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quote:
Originally posted by NR:
The stuff I am reading suggests he intentionally deserted and renounced his citizenship. If it's true, then he is no longer a soldier or American citizen and he should be designated an enemy combatant and locked up in Guantanamo.

As for Obama? How many times can the president do whatever he wants without the normal checks and balances before Americans realize the Executive Branch of our government is completely out of control?

Ask Pagan or Ray. They have always been die hard loyal liberals very fond of Obama.


Here you go, see for yourself. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1305184/Bowe-Bergdahl-Taliban-claim-capt ured-U-S-solider-teaching-fighters-bomb-making-skills.html

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raybond
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article 2 section 2 U.S. constitution


The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States; he may require the Opinion, in writing, of the principal Officer in each of the executive Departments, upon any subject relating to the Duties of their respective Offices, and he shall have Power to Grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offenses against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.

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raybond
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Less than forty-eight hours after securing the release of Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl in exchange for five Taliban detainees held at Guantanamo, Republicans in Congress and conservatives in media began attacking the deal. In doing so, they are refusing to accept the reality of the situation on the ground in Afghanistan and the way wars end.

The United States is engaged in an armed conflict in Afghanistan against al Qaeda, the Taliban, and associated forces authorized by Congress under the 2001 Authorizations to Use Military Force. It is remains controversial whether this armed conflict extends beyond Afghanistan and the border regions of Pakistan, but what is not in doubt is that of the enemy forces party to this conflict, the Taliban is confined to Afghanistan and Pakistan. President Obama recently announced that the combat role for the United States in the armed conflict in Afghanistan will end this year and all participation will completely cease by 2016.

When wars end, prisoners taken custody must be released. These five Guantanamo detainees were almost all members of the Taliban, according to the biographies of the five detainees that the Afghan Analysts Network compiled in 2012. None were facing charges in either military or civilian courts for their actions. It remains an open question whether the end of U.S. involvement in the armed conflict in Afghanistan requires that all Guantanamo detainees must be released. But there is no doubt that Taliban detainees captured in Afghanistan must be released because the armed conflict against the Taliban will be over.

Sgt. Bergdahl was a U.S. soldier captured in an active zone of combat. The circumstances of his capture make him a Prisoner of War, not a hostage as some have erroneously claimed. In traditional conflicts, both sides would release their prisoners at the conclusion of hostilities. This is not a traditional conflict, however, and the Obama administration rightly had no expectation that Sgt. Bergdahl would have been released when U.S. forces redeployed out of Afghanistan. As that date neared, any leverage the United States possessed would have been severely undermined.

Conservative critics, however, are stuck fighting the political fights of the last decade and refuse to appreciate the cunning maneuvers that secured the release of the lone American soldier taken prisoner in Afghanistan at little risk to the security of the United States.

Rep. Mike Rogers (R-MI) said of the move, “I believe this decision will threaten the lives of American soldiers for years to come.” Other Republicans have joined in the chorus since the deal was announced, including Rep. Howard “Buck” McKeon (R-CA), chairman of the Armed Services Committee, calling for hearings over the agreement. Even though Rogers is the Chairman of the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence, he offered no evidence to support his charge. That’s because the evidence demonstrates that the Obama administration has been remarkably successful at preventing detainees it has released from Guantanamo from engaging in militant activities against the United States.

Statistics from the Office of the Director of National Intelligence show that only 6 percent (5 in total) of Guantanamo detainees released during the Obama administration have been assessed to have potentially engaged in militant activities. That compares with a rate of nearly 30 percent under the Bush administration. While these statistics have been criticized as including activities that no one should consider threatening the security of the United States, such as writing op-eds critical of U.S. policy, no one is arguing that they are undercounting those detainees who potentially have committed violent acts upon release.

So the statistics show that there is a 5 percent chance at most that these detainees will engage in militant activities upon release, they will be in Qatar for at least a year by which time the U.S. combat role in Afghanistan will be over, and they would have had to be released soon anyway. When put in the proper perspective, obtaining the release of the sole U.S. prisoner in Afghanistan is a masterstroke and worthy of congratulations.

The five detainees that were included in the deal would have to be released soon anyway because the U.S. involvement in the armed conflict against the Taliban is ending. And the Obama administration has been exceptionally good at preventing released Guantanamo detainees from engaging in militant activities against the United States, especially compared to the Bush administration. It’s time to move on from the constant political fights of the last decade and conservatives critics should simply be celebrating the return home of Sgt. Bergdahl.

Ken Gude is a Senior Fellow at the Center for American Progress, where he focuses on issues involving detainees, privacy, and technology.

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CashCowMoo
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Ray you have no idea what is going on. You probably think Benghazi was over a youtube video nobody has ever heard of. Have you served in remote areas in an infantry or combat unit like these guys were doing? Someone in your unit walks away from your combat outpost, and joins the enemy willingly, and then you start getting more precise attacks....well

You dont know anything really about detainees returning to the battlefield because you have never come across that situation. You just produced some bs article about what is going on from a leftist outlet. What you are trying to justify is like protecting sex offenders getting released back into population when you know they are just going to do it again. The same is true for terrorists.


Do you have sympathy for sex offenders ray? At this point it really would not surprise me.

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raybond
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are you a sex offender? your a nit wit get your facts straight you don't know what you are talking about. And you conservative friends will fail at this to because Obama was in his legal power to do what he did by the constitution of this country.

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glassman
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it's now being reported that Berghdal behaved as if he was under hte influence of a (hallucinogenic)drug when he "wandered off".

as to you cashcow? you have obviously lost it (again).

i don't care what mistakes they make. We Do Not leave People Behind. period, end of story. You are drinking the hate obama no matter what koolaid again.

If Obama broke the law? There better be an impeachmnet Proceeidng like Bush and Cheney deserved but didn;t get because the Democrats are bunch of wease;s too.

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NR
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Yeah, I know, Fox News, but:

"EXCLUSIVE: Bergdahl declared jihad in captivity, secret documents show"

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/06/05/exclusive-bergdahl-declared-jihad-in- 2010-secret-documents-show/

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glassman
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same kind of "intel" was reported about John Mccain... intel is lies within lies...

A retired corporal, Bob Dumas, told reporters that McCain didn't want the record of his debriefing following his release from captivity made public because "a lot of the POWs that was in the camps said he was a collaborator of the enemy. " The specific number comes from someone named Tracy Usry, who said: "Information shows that he made over 32 tapes of propaganda for the Vietnamese government.

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glassman
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just out of curiosity, i treid to find how many POW's we released back the North Viet Nam at the end of the war... couldn;t find any figures or even a mention of US releasing them, even tho i know we had them i couldn;t even find out how many we collected..

Dec 8, 1966:
North Vietnam rejects Johnson's prisoner exchange proposal
The International Red Cross announces in Geneva that North Vietnam has rejected a proposal by President Johnson for a resolution of the prisoner of war situation. He had proposed a joint discussion of fair treatment and possible exchange of war captives held by both sides. The International Red Cross submitted the proposal to North Vietnamese officials in July after Johnson first broached the plan on July 20 at a news conference. No solution was reached on the issue until the Paris Peace Accords were signed in January 1973. By the terms of the accords, all U.S. prisoners were to be released by the following March.


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CashCowMoo
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quote:
Originally posted by glassman:
same kind of "intel" was reported about John Mccain... intel is lies within lies...

A retired corporal, Bob Dumas, told reporters that McCain didn't want the record of his debriefing following his release from captivity made public because "a lot of the POWs that was in the camps said he was a collaborator of the enemy. " The specific number comes from someone named Tracy Usry, who said: "Information shows that he made over 32 tapes of propaganda for the Vietnamese government.

Well now THAT is interesting
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CashCowMoo
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quote:
Originally posted by glassman:
just out of curiosity, i treid to find how many POW's we released back the North Viet Nam at the end of the war... couldn;t find any figures or even a mention of US releasing them, even tho i know we had them i couldn;t even find out how many we collected..

Dec 8, 1966:
North Vietnam rejects Johnson's prisoner exchange proposal
The International Red Cross announces in Geneva that North Vietnam has rejected a proposal by President Johnson for a resolution of the prisoner of war situation. He had proposed a joint discussion of fair treatment and possible exchange of war captives held by both sides. The International Red Cross submitted the proposal to North Vietnamese officials in July after Johnson first broached the plan on July 20 at a news conference. No solution was reached on the issue until the Paris Peace Accords were signed in January 1973. By the terms of the accords, all U.S. prisoners were to be released by the following March.

How many POWs in Vietnam never made it home? I have always wondered how many might still be alive somewhere over there. Its hard to believe but someone knows.

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glassman
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those numbers are available as MIA's, and it was more than were brought home.
Following the Paris Peace Accords of January 1973, U.S. prisoners of war were returned during Operation Homecoming during February through April 1973. During this, 591 POWs were released to U.S. authorities; this included a few captured in Laos and released in North Vietnam. U.S. President Richard Nixon announced that all U.S. servicemen taken prisoner had been accounted for.[6] At that time, the U.S. listed 2,646 Americans as unaccounted for,[7] including about 1,350 prisoners of war or missing in action and roughly 1,200 reported killed in action and body not recovered.[8] The low numbers of returnees from Laos caused some immediate concern, as previous Pentagon estimates were as high as 41 for prisoners held there, although only a few had been known to be captured for certain.

if the GOP brings impeachment proceedings against Obama for this, they are cutting heir own throats again... Obama did th eright thing here. yes he should have consulted congress as i understand the law says, but even if Bowe was on LSD and shot one of our guys before he ran off? we still don't leave him behind if possible. if he deserves a punishment for his ctions? he can do it at leavenworth, and his imprisonment as a POW should be counted as time served.

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NR
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quote:
Originally posted by glassman:
same kind of "intel" was reported about John Mccain... intel is lies within lies...

A retired corporal, Bob Dumas, told reporters that McCain didn't want the record of his debriefing following his release from captivity made public because "a lot of the POWs that was in the camps said he was a collaborator of the enemy. " The specific number comes from someone named Tracy Usry, who said: "Information shows that he made over 32 tapes of propaganda for the Vietnamese government.

Yeah, some of the info about him being a "traitor" is coming from the Taliban themselves, so there's that. Also, the only one reporting it at this time is Fox News, so there is that too.

I've even heard some people suggest that he wasn't a POW because we weren't at war. According to their logic the Bush administration did not seek a declaration of war in Afghanistan, and labeled Taliban troops as supporters of terrorists rather than soldiers.

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glassman
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Under the National Defense Authorization Act signed into law by Obama late last year, the administration gained some added flexibility in transferring detainees from Guantanamo Bay, but was required to notify Congress 30 days in advance. However, legislators had no power to block such a transfer. Tha means it would have just been another poltical footbal.
so impeach him on it. they find him guilty inhte House and the Senate refuses to act on it story over...

except whether this guy Berghdal was guilty of anything, but that's a seperate story...

instead, i expect to hear two years of beaching and moaning form all side about this in an attempt to get votes... SSDD

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glassman
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quote:
Originally posted by NR:
quote:
Originally posted by glassman:
same kind of "intel" was reported about John Mccain... intel is lies within lies...

A retired corporal, Bob Dumas, told reporters that McCain didn't want the record of his debriefing following his release from captivity made public because "a lot of the POWs that was in the camps said he was a collaborator of the enemy. " The specific number comes from someone named Tracy Usry, who said: "Information shows that he made over 32 tapes of propaganda for the Vietnamese government.

Yeah, some of the info about him being a "traitor" is coming from the Taliban themselves, so there's that. Also, the only one reporting it at this time is Fox News, so there is that too.

I've even heard some people suggest that he wasn't a POW because we weren't at war. According to their logic the Bush administration did not seek a declaration of war in Afghanistan, and labeled Taliban troops as supporters of terrorists rather than soldiers.

and our troops lost six guys looking for him and they had to do alot of work trying to find him that they would not have had to do if he ahdn't 'wandered off". I don;t blame them fo bieng ticked off at him... still, we leave no man behind....

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CashCowMoo
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No you are right glass, we even get our traitors back. Obama provides a heroes welcome, and like the family members of those who died looking for him had their son come home in a box on the belly of a plane.


He willingly left his brothers to seek out the enemy to meet them.

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raybond
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As usual after reading all the post I have figured out that cash does not know a thing about what he is talking about, And is looking at life with the emotional stability of a 12 year old, Cash you could not last 30 days in my world at an entry level position, but I bet you would know all about the job. Plain and simple your a wimp.

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glassman
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like i said cash, if obama broke the law, it's impeacahble then they should just do it and quit the bs'ing.

my understanidng is that there were extensive official inquiries intot eh event leading up to his disappearnce. they did not cocnlude the guy was a traitor. just a forkup. it's not about a case by case basis. we leave no one behind.

one thing i do know form my own military expereince is not to beleive rumors and that's all you are going on. I aloslearned the investigative reports are ussully full of chit too..

reports i've seen alos indicate that his unit was suffering form bad discipline and the people who died looking for him probably did not have to die if the unit had better leadership and managemnt.

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glassman
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one other issue here;

I have never been able to find what any of these guys we released were actaully being held for. No charges have ever been filed. I don't doubt they are bad guys, but that is not the way we do business here in the US. They aren't POW's since no war has been declared. They were gathered based on intel (i assume) provided by the same groups that told us there were WMD in Iraq. the whole thing is sideways from the gitgo

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raybond
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I really don't understand either side of this one.

If you think Berghdal was a deserter you should be over joyed that he is here to face the music and pay for his crimes. And that comes from Martin Dempsey himself. The six soldiers who died did so way before the release of Berghdal . And I don't see this soldier getting a heroes welcome yet. Anyway there is a lot to be answered. Plus the deaths of six soldiers has to be put to rest once and for all.

As far as Obama is concerned he did not break any laws.

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CashCowMoo
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quote:
Originally posted by raybond:
I really don't understand either side of this one.

If you think Berghdal was a deserter you should be over joyed that he is here to face the music and pay for his crimes. And that comes from Martin Dempsey himself. The six soldiers who died did so way before the release of Berghdal . And I don't see this soldier getting a heroes welcome yet. Anyway there is a lot to be answered. Plus the deaths of six soldiers has to be put to rest once and for all.

As far as Obama is concerned he did not break any laws.

What? He broke the law of not notifying congress of the deal. This administration has admitted they broke the law. What are you smoking?
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raybond
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no that is not so and that law is considered unconstitutional by many.

If the right wing feels Obama has broke the law I say bring it on and we will see.

What most Americans need is jobs I suggest they pass the jobs bill that they have been sitting on for 5 years, they might improve there chances of getting reelected ,

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glassman
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Obama "merely" failed to observe a formality in the law.
The real problem is that, supposing he had given 30 days notice, the deal may have fallen thru due to Politics. Congress had no oversight over his ability to move the prisoners.

It is probably an impeacahble offense, but the reasoanble penalty would not be nothing. So you get eh same impeachmant action that they took on Clintn. Waste of time and breath.

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CashCowMoo
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quote:
Originally posted by glassman:
Obama "merely" failed to observe a formality in the law.
The real problem is that, supposing he had given 30 days notice, the deal may have fallen thru due to Politics. Congress had no oversight over his ability to move the prisoners.

It is probably an impeacahble offense, but the reasoanble penalty would not be nothing. So you get eh same impeachmant action that they took on Clintn. Waste of time and breath.

Have you gotten that soft? On this D-day weekend I read stories of soldiers and Presidents that inspire me. Does Obama inspire you?
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glassman
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what do you mean soft?

you are making horsepiles out of molehills again.

there's no penalty ascribed in the law. so he didn't tell congress what he was doing. Congress had no options to stop him from doing it. the law doesn't give them oversight over this action. It is literally a courtesy precribed by th elaw. They could get on thetalk shows and raise hell about it and turn the action into another failed action. Impeach him fro breaking the law. But the penalty also has to fit the "crime" and hte crime is like "hey i ignored yo at the party" or i forgot to send you a invitation tot he wedding... boohoo LOL...

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Pagan
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quote:
Originally posted by glassman:
what do you mean soft?

you are making horsepiles out of molehills again.

there's no penalty ascribed in the law. so he didn't tell congress what he was doing. Congress had no options to stop him from doing it. the law doesn't give them oversight over this action. It is literally a courtesy precribed by th elaw. They could get on thetalk shows and raise hell about it and turn the action into another failed action. Impeach him fro breaking the law. But the penalty also has to fit the "crime" and hte crime is like "hey i ignored yo at the party" or i forgot to send you a invitation tot he wedding... boohoo LOL...

Excuse me if I am wrong. And I will apologize accordingly. But....didn't you say previously that you vetted him?
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glassman
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i don't understand the question Pagan. i don't vette anybody here.

--------------------
Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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IWISHIHAD
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Originally Posted by Glassman:

and our troops lost six guys looking for him and they had to do alot of work trying to find him that they would not have had to do if he ahdn't 'wandered off". I don;t blame them fo bieng ticked off at him... still, we leave no man behind....
-------------------------------------------------

I never did understand the saying that "we leave no man behind."

On paper it sounds good, but im not sure in reality it always happens.

To many wars and major conflicts for that to be a reality.

Im also not sure that some want to be found, or they were caught in a situation where it might be pretty much impossible to account for all our soldiers.

Maybe i am wrong for this assumption, maybe all eventually get accounted for, but i doubt it.

So many rumors in war, only the ones involved in these incidents in war really know the truth, and some times they don't want anyone to know the real truth, so people make their own truths.

All kinds of things have happened in the past and i am sure many more will happen in the future.
Best way to solve the problem is to stop making wars!

-

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glassman
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you are right on all counts IWISH.

--------------------
Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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CashCowMoo
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quote:
Originally posted by IWISHIHAD:
Originally Posted by Glassman:

and our troops lost six guys looking for him and they had to do alot of work trying to find him that they would not have had to do if he ahdn't 'wandered off". I don;t blame them fo bieng ticked off at him... still, we leave no man behind....
-------------------------------------------------

I never did understand the saying that "we leave no man behind."

On paper it sounds good, but im not sure in reality it always happens.

To many wars and major conflicts for that to be a reality.

Im also not sure that some want to be found, or they were caught in a situation where it might be pretty much impossible to account for all our soldiers.

Maybe i am wrong for this assumption, maybe all eventually get accounted for, but i doubt it.

So many rumors in war, only the ones involved in these incidents in war really know the truth, and some times they don't want anyone to know the real truth, so people make their own truths.

All kinds of things have happened in the past and i am sure many more will happen in the future.
Best way to solve the problem is to stop making wars!

-

Stop making wars...it would be nice but this earth is never going to see that.
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Relentless.
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Didn't read a single word above. Don't need to.. Posted by moomoo.

Gitmo is nothing more than officer training for our contracted killers.

The recent "release" is proof of that. I do take pleasure in that it is more in the open in that it signals their lack of constraint. To me that says their endgame is near.


Got guns?

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