posted
another joke of a trial in CA... the hard evidence didn't sound too compelling....the guy looks crazy as a loon, and he may have done it, but the trial looked like a huge waste of time and money to me..(so far) Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
Well he probably did it.But if they convict him they could have convicted me for it.No evidence,reasonable doubt all over the place.So i say no way he is convicted.Heck modesto is only 25 minutes from me.I swear i was at home when it happened LOL
quote:Originally posted by glassman: another joke of a trial in CA... the hard evidence didn't sound too compelling....the guy looks crazy as a loon, and he may have done it, but the trial looked like a huge waste of time and money to me..(so far)
quote:Originally posted by tigertony: Well he probably did it.But if they convict him they could have convicted me for it. No evidence,reasonable doubt all over the place.
Did you have the means, motive, and opportunity?
Did anyone else but Scott have the MMO, and then looked like they were planning to leave the country when he was pulled in?
Sure OJ was let go in spite of more evidence against him but the jury deliberately let their own go free - after all his victims were white.
posted
sheesh Art, have you ever heard of reasonable doubt? there are dozens of murders committed randomly every day......are we going to convict the most convenient person for every one?
Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
Well it was only someone being kicked off the jury. Oh well they have to start all over now in deliberations with an Alternative. I agree Glass, California has hollywood on TV and in the court.
Ric
Posts: 4405 | From: Bristol, Tn, USA | Registered: Aug 2004
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posted
I don't know if he did it or not...glad I'm not on that jury.
What bothers me is that they seem to be replacing a few select jurors. If he is convicted, he could probably win an appeal easily.
If he did it, he deserves to fry. I just can't say that I don't have a reasonable doubt...because this case was based on mostly circumstantial evidence.
quote:Originally posted by glassman: sheesh Art, have you ever heard of reasonable doubt? there are dozens of murders committed randomly every day......are we going to convict the most convenient person for every one?
Are we instead going to let many murderers go free?
quote:Originally posted by keithsan: definately easy to find reasonable doubt here and thats the standard....
'member oj's glove......
Get real! I demonstrated OJ's glove trick before a group who swore the glove was not a fit for my hand, even though it fit perfectly. All you have to do is extend your thumb slightly away from your hand as you put it on, so it looks like you can't force it on - anyone can fake a perfect-fit glove as too small for their hand if they want to.
[This message has been edited by Art (edited November 09, 2004).]
posted
In the oj case,you had blood shoe prints shoes,blood in his car.None of that here.definetly reasonable doubt, don't like it but better to let one go than start convicting alot of innocent people.Imho
Posts: 942 | From: tracy,ca U.S.A | Registered: Aug 2004
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posted
he does seem creeeeepy tho.... the weird part IMO is the irony here,he's dumb enough to look really guilty, but smart enough to fool the forensics people?
Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
Best way to tell if in high profile case the person is innocent or guilty. If they get off they are guilty and if they go to jail there innocent or it was for something stupid (Martha). I like the movie Sleepers when the lawyer was talking about losing all his cases and the Hells Kitchen boss said "they must have been innocent, it's hard to defend an innocent man".
Ric
Posts: 4405 | From: Bristol, Tn, USA | Registered: Aug 2004
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posted
Originally posted by keithsan: definately easy to find reasonable doubt here and thats the standard.... 'member oj's glove......
Art: Get real! I demonstrated OJ's glove trick before a group who swore the glove was not a fit for my hand, even though it fit perfectly. All you have to do is extend your thumb slightly away from your hand as you put it on, so it looks like you can't force it on - anyone can fake a perfect-fit glove as too small for their hand if they want to.
quote:Originally posted by keithsan: LOL
exactly art....and it created reasonable doubt in the jurors eyes.
no one said it was real or fair.
Art: My point was that it shouldn't have created reasonable doubt - the doubt it created was patently unreasonable.
posted
from a lawyers perspective, you just have to find that one moron in a jury...
Posts: 9110 | From: boston, ma | Registered: Jan 2004
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posted
I don't know if he is guilty or not, but if he was in my family, and did the things that he did, I would tend to be thinking that he did it! Had an affair, tried to sell her car,and the house, before they found her body, colored his hair, and took a big pile of money, with a water purifier, and got caught with it,,,, just seems funny to me! People are innocent, until proven guilty though, so I will wait for the evidence!
Posts: 622 | From: USA | Registered: Aug 2004
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posted
Another Jury replaced. Only 3 alt's left now out of 6. Got to love the court system.
Gotta question???
What would you rather happen. A court that leans over backwards to protect an innocent person from going to jail. Or, a strict court with the chance of innocent person going to jail?
I would rather see 2 guilty persons go free if it kept one innocent person out. And before you answer that what if someone accused you of something you didn't do and you went to jail for it.
Ric
Posts: 4405 | From: Bristol, Tn, USA | Registered: Aug 2004
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What would you rather happen. A court that leans over backwards to protect an innocent person from going to jail. Or, a strict court with the chance of innocent person going to jail?
I would rather see 2 guilty persons go free if it kept one innocent person out. And before you answer that what if someone accused you of something you didn't do and you went to jail for it.
Ric
Your error is in thinking of the rights of an individual as prepotent to those of the group.
The greatest good for the greatest number of a nation's citizens (and not of other nation's citizens unless this benefits our nation in a cost-effective manner) is the moral goal of a nation.
This means those whose individual actions detracts from or decreases the good of a nation as a whole should be life-confined or killed.
Under this principle, foreigners should not be given rights and privileges afforded to our own citizens unless this is good for our own national interests - terrorists should be tried by the military and should not have a court trial.
Now, if you let 2 guilty murderers go free so as to keep one innocent from being punished with execution or life confinement, and the two freed guilty killed a total of two more innocent people in their lifetimes, you would have at least twice as many innocents killed relative to punishing the one innocent along with the two guilty. More importantly perhaps is that a system that often lets the guilty go free is seen as "criminal friendly", and criminals are encouraged in their criminal pursuits. Harsh and frequent punishment reduces crime and spares many innocents from being vicitmized in the future - those few innocents who are unfairly punished pay the price so that many more innocents are spared - the greatest good for the greatest number.
Do you want to see two innocents killed instead of just one innocent life-confined or killed, when this increases harm raher than reduces it.
Murders who escape judicial punishment are at high risk of future killings.
posted
I feel sorry for you. I have read so many of your posts and just see someone that is cold. I hope that you can learn a little compassion some day. Because most of these innocent people are sentanced because they can't get the good lawyer that is needed.
I said nothing about non citizens either. I just find it hard that there are so many innocent people made to suffer the horrors of prison because of people like yourself. But oh well.
If the number of prisoners who have been released in capital cases is any indication, a significant percentage of the 2 million residents of state and federal prisons are living a nightmare. In Illinois, defense lawyers, journalists and students have helped free 14 of 288 death row prisoners. That's an error rate (so far) of 4.9 percent in cases that receive intense scrutiny. Applied to the general inmate population, that would translate to roughly 100,000 people, or enough to fill 80 prisons.
Ric
[This message has been edited by Ric (edited November 11, 2004).]
Posts: 4405 | From: Bristol, Tn, USA | Registered: Aug 2004
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posted
Ric: I feel sorry for you. I have read so many of your posts and just see someone that is cold. I hope that you can learn a little compassion some day. ..... I just find it hard that there are so many innocent people made to suffer the horrors of prison because of people like yourself. But oh well.
Art: My compassion is with victims - yours is with criminals. You would increase crime, and increase innocent victim suffering, to prevent innocent convicts from suffering, even though the suffering of innocent victims is thereby greater than the suffering of innocent convicts.
Your are a terrible person with a misguided (universal love) morality that would do more harm than good. You dare call me cold and non-compasionate when my views would reduce suffering while yours would increase it!
Ric: If the number of prisoners who have been released in capital cases is any indication, a significant percentage of the 2 million residents of state and federal prisons are living a nightmare. In Illinois, defense lawyers, journalists and students have helped free 14 of 288 death row prisoners. That's an error rate (so far) of 4.9 percent in cases that receive intense scrutiny. Applied to the general inmate population, that would translate to roughly 100,000 people, or enough to fill 80 prisons.
Art: So 5% are unjustly convicted. What about the 50% of guilty criminals who either don't even go to trial, or get off as not guilty, because of overly stringent evidentiary requirements? Their future innocent victims undergo far more suffering then the 5% unjustly convicted. What if increasing the number of unjustly convicted to 10% instead of just 5%, by having less stringent evidentiary requirements, was able to reduce the number of criminals who get off to 10% instead of 50%. By capturing and incarcerating/killing many more criminals we were then able to reduce crime victim suffering by many more times that of the suffering of unjustly convicted. Would you really be against such a reductrion of innocent suffering? Or, are you so blinded by one person's suffering that you can't see beyond it?
Think objectively and not emotionally if you truly would be a moral person who wants to reduce suffering in an efficacious manner.
posted
I guess that you think the Patriot Act doesn't go to far in taking away our civil liberties either. I think your are totally wrong. I do think the "one" sometimes out ways the group. If this country hadn't went so far down hill, I guess we wouldn't be talking about this anyway. Drug addicts pumping out babies like candy making future criminals in this world. But no, lets not worry about the social underlining problems, lets put fear in its place and place everyone in jail and hopefully someone did something.
Ric
Posts: 4405 | From: Bristol, Tn, USA | Registered: Aug 2004
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posted
Yes we all do things in the heat of the moment. Now we look back we see that we went to far. Not to say that it should be repealed but what would it hurt to have a judge look at it to see if it is valid or a over zealous FBI agent. I think it needs a few items changed, just a few to help protect all our rights.
Ric
quote:Originally posted by keithsan: on the patriot act, nothing else,
only one vote against, it was worked for by both parties all though you'll hear the spin that it was the bush nazi's
Posts: 4405 | From: Bristol, Tn, USA | Registered: Aug 2004
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posted
that will happen, it will take some time probably not too much though. and the kinks will we worked out.
Posts: 9110 | From: boston, ma | Registered: Jan 2004
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posted
I am no where close to be liberal either. IMO we should have a one chance law. Any drug addict, prostitute, welfare loser, or loser period has one chance after their first child to straighten up there life. If they have another child without changes then take there child and give it to a good family and fix them so they can't continue this pattern. Also if you have a couple with both of them having IQ's under 80 then only allow them to marry if they get fixed.
Thats the only way we are going to fix our welfare in this country and the crime. And quit throwing people in jail for spanking there children. Abuse is different but its gone too far.
Ric
Posts: 4405 | From: Bristol, Tn, USA | Registered: Aug 2004
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