1) Consumer confidence stood at a 2 1/2 year high; 2) Regular gasoline sold for $2.19 a gallon; 3) The unemployment rate was 4.5%.
Since voting in a Democratic Congress in 2006 we have seen:
1) Consumer confidence plummet; 2) The cost of regular gasoline soar to over $3.50 a gallon; 3) Unemployment is up to 5% (a 10% increase); 4) American households have seen $2.3 trillion in equity value evaporate (stock and mutual fund losses); 5) Americans have seen their home equity drop by $1.2 trillion dollars; 6) 1% of American homes are in foreclosure.
America voted for change in 2006, and we got it!
Remember it's Congress that makes law not the President. He has to work with what's handed to him.
A liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own.
Posted by The Bigfoot on :
Wow...where'd you get that one from Bob?
Posted by Bob Frey on :
Someone sent it to me via email.
Fig it might get a few folks going....
Posted by The Bigfoot on :
Just wait until we get a democratic president in with a democratic congress.
Then we'll start to see what they can do! Posted by SeekingFreedom on :
Sadly, Big, that's what alot of us are afraid of. Posted by T e x on :
very, very sadly, that's the best explanation I've seen for the oil/gasoline travesty: apparently, Bush's pals went to work ratcheting up the pps as a smear tactic against Dem-Congress...
not to mention windfall profits Posted by bond006 on :
Good post big
Don't forget big it was a democrat that brought us through the last depression because he had guts.
Hoover left in disgrace and we did not see another repubilcan until eisenhower
Rooseavelt brought us through WWII, also all of his sons served in the military .
That same spirit will arise to any bad time again.
One thing for sure the current deserter and his draft dogging side kick are going to line there pockets with cash and run away to let the rest of us deal with the problems.
Posted by SeekingFreedom on :
Tex,
Make sure you know who those 'windfall profits' are going to...
[i]Estimated profit per gallon for Exxon is .10 cents. The feds take you for upwards of .18 cents per gallon. New York gas taxes equal an additional .68 cents per gallon. So who's gouging you now?[\i]
Big Governement could drop your price at the pump in some states by as much as a dollar if they really cared...which is why they haven't. Posted by T e x on :
quote:Originally posted by SeekingFreedom: Tex,
Make sure you know who those 'windfall profits' are going to...
[i]Estimated profit per gallon for Exxon is .10 cents. The feds take you for upwards of .18 cents per gallon. New York gas taxes equal an additional .68 cents per gallon. So who's gouging you now?[\i]
Big Governement could drop your price at the pump in some states by as much as a dollar if they really cared...which is why they haven't.
you kidding me?
lol, I live way up-front in Texas: Bush-baggers, JFK-killers, LBJ-wildflowers, Halliburton/IRAQ, VietNam/Brown 'n phuking Root... what's your mis-spelling point?
Posted by glassman on :
quote:Originally posted by SeekingFreedom: Tex,
Make sure you know who those 'windfall profits' are going to...
[i]Estimated profit per gallon for Exxon is .10 cents. The feds take you for upwards of .18 cents per gallon. New York gas taxes equal an additional .68 cents per gallon. So who's gouging you now?[\i]
Big Governement could drop your price at the pump in some states by as much as a dollar if they really cared...which is why they haven't.
big govt could forget bulding your roads to drive on too...
and it could stop making sure your food is safe to eat...
why not just stop putting people in prison and turn all the inmates loose while we are at it? then we can just sit on our front porch and shoot looters all day Posted by SeekingFreedom on :
Ok, I think my point has been lost...let me try again. Out of every gallon that we buy, Big Oil only makes about 10 cents of profit. That means that even if tomorrow they decided to become a non-profit charity oil company, you would still be paying over 3 dollars per gallon for your fuel.
The cost of buying and refining the oil has become more expensive because the Oil Cartel knows people will pay it. That cost has to be passed onto the consumer for the oil companies to remain in business. The 'Windfall Profits' that both sides of the political aisle are taking aim at, are simply the aggregate amount of millions of dimes that they are making. Their profit margin is an average of about 3% of the cost of the final product. 3%! They are simply selling ALOT of product. Ask your local retailer how much of a markup they add to your TV, or your shirt, or heaven forbid, your food. Having worked in retail, I'll tell you right now, it's more than 3%.
Glass, the intent of the Goverment portion of my post was to put the 10 cents in perspective. I am fully aware that the taxes generated by fuel consumption go to many causes that none of us want to be without. That being said, I feel it is disingenuous of the politicians to point at the Big Oil folks and call what they make (from a legal, honest business) gouging when they take more than six times that amount from the same product.
Finally, Tex. I don't intend to misspell, I was trying to myth-dispel. Posted by T e x on :
quote:Big Oil only makes about 10 cents of profit. That means that even if tomorrow they decided to become a non-profit charity oil company, you would still be paying over 3 dollars per gallon for your fuel.
love to see the math...
lol, you whack all the myths you want, show me da math on that oil processsssssssss
Posted by IWISHIHAD on :
Oil companies are not like any other business that i have seen. They are an elite group that control way to much of our economy and our lives.
Percentages mean nothing when looking at oil companies and comparing them to other businesses.
Profits of 40 billion dollars are outragous, especially when then are sucking the blood out of other businesses and consumers.
They have so many ways to hide so much money beyond what they are declaring after taxes. There is so much skimming off the top.
Unfortunately they have us where they want us and can do anything they want at this point.
Posted by glassman on :
The cost of buying and refining the oil has become more expensive because the Oil Cartel knows people will pay it
the current world situation is SO obvious i can't understand why more people don't see it.
when we invaded Iraq? the price
of oil was cheap too cheap actually:
the Saudi's were behind 9-11. maybe NOT the Crown Prince himself, but we KNOW FOR FACT that the funding came in from many prominent Saudi's.
Bush uses the excuse to invade Iraq and suddenly we are paying almost 4 times as much for oil TO THE SAUDI'S
people can say what they want about conspiracy THEORIES, but the bottom line has always been to follow the money...
Posted by SeekingFreedom on :
Ok, guess I have to pass out the tin foil hats before the brain wave guns get us. (sigh)
The first hat goes to Tex: show me da math on that oil processsssssssss
Ok, Total cost of Crude (dictated by OPEC) + Cost of refining into three seperate blends of gasoline + Transportation costs + Lots of taxes by the Government = What you're paying at the pump - 10 Cents
If you want any more detail than that, try Googling it.
Next hat...IWISHIHAD!
Oil companies are not like any other business that i have seen. They are an elite group that control way to much of our economy and our lives.
That's like saying the Tourism industry in Hawaii or the Bahamas control way too much of their economies. That's what they do for a living. It's the tourists that freely choose to visit and spend the money. No undue pressure is made upon them. What are you going to say when we're running on ethanol? That the corn farmers are robber barons? That they shouldn't make a profit from the corn? We choose to use oil, like it or not. They simply provide it for us.
They have so many ways to hide so much money beyond what they are declaring after taxes. There is so much skimming off the top.
There is a reason that Envy is among the Seven Deadlies. Why is it that everytime someone (or business) gets and stays successful, the first charge levied at them by those who have less is that they couldn't possibly make that much money honestly? I mean, it can't possibly be that they are selling a product in high demand at a competetive price? Nah, it MUST be they are stealing from the poor man. Class envy is so unbecoming.
Finally, the best and brightest hat goes to Glass on this one.
Bush uses the excuse to invade Iraq and suddenly we are paying almost 4 times as much for oil TO THE SAUDI'S
First, most of the world's oil prices are set either directly or indirectly by OPEC. That includes: Algeria, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Kuwait, Libya, Nigeria, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates and Venezuela. Saudi Arabia does not dictate the price unilateraly nor does it receive any more profit (proportionately speaking) than any of the others.
Second, did you actually look at the chart you posted? The price of oil (per barrel) rose many times over the course of the timeline. Each of the spikes prior to the 90's had little or nothing to do with the U.S. They were reactions to threats to the supply. Even the one's we were involved in are similarly linked. A threat to one source of oil places a greater strain on the remainder. Greater Demand, greater price. I refuse to believe that as a business owner you don't understand this concept. The price of oil is currently increasing do to nothing more sinister than there are a hell of a lot more cars\trucks\suv's out in this world that run on it. Also, the plastics currently used in nearly everything we use come from what? That's right. Oil. More Demand...same supply...higher cost. It's that simple. Econ 101 stuff.
Finally to all the 'Big Oil Sucks' folks out there. You don't like the price of gas? Buy a bicycle. Work closer to home. Or, even better, invent a car that runs on complaints...you'd never have to worry about running out of fuel.
Posted by glassman on :
quote:Originally posted by SeekingFreedom: Bush uses the excuse to invade Iraq and suddenly we are paying almost 4 times as much for oil TO THE SAUDI'S
First, most of the world's oil prices are set either directly or indirectly by OPEC. That includes: Algeria, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Kuwait, Libya, Nigeria, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates and Venezuela. Saudi Arabia does not dictate the price unilateraly nor does it receive any more profit (proportionately speaking) than any of the others.
Second, did you actually look at the chart you posted? The price of oil (per barrel) rose many times over the course of the timeline. Each of the spikes prior to the 90's had little or nothing to do with the U.S. They were reactions to threats to the supply. Even the one's we were involved in are similarly linked. A threat to one source of oil places a greater strain on the remainder. Greater Demand, greater price. I refuse to believe that as a business owner you don't understand this concept. The price of oil is currently increasing do to nothing more sinister than there are a hell of a lot more cars\trucks\suv's out in this world that run on it. Also, the plastics currently used in nearly everything we use come from what? That's right. Oil. More Demand...same supply...higher cost. It's that simple. Econ 101 stuff.
supply/demand? there is no shortage of oil, there has been a shortage of gasoline, and gasoline has been LEADING the price of oil in the last three-four years, not vice versa.
of course i looked a the chart, it proves my point, and so do you; first you support my argument by saying OPEC sets the price? then you say i'm wrong when i point out that every war has caused spike in the price of oil? what have you been drinking tonight?
gasoline has gone up due to REFINERY issues, and oil follows it... it's been happening regularly since the Iraq war started.
[IMG][/IMG]
Posted by T e x on :
quote:Originally posted by SeekingFreedom: Ok, guess I have to pass out the tin foil hats before the brain wave guns get us. (sigh)
The first hat goes to Tex: show me da math on that oil processsssssssss
Ok, Total cost of Crude (dictated by OPEC) + Cost of refining into three seperate blends of gasoline + Transportation costs + Lots of taxes by the Government = What you're paying at the pump - 10 Cents
If you want any more detail than that, try Googling it.
Next hat...IWISHIHAD!
Oil companies are not like any other business that i have seen. They are an elite group that control way to much of our economy and our lives.
That's like saying the Tourism industry in Hawaii or the Bahamas control way too much of their economies. That's what they do for a living. It's the tourists that freely choose to visit and spend the money. No undue pressure is made upon them. What are you going to say when we're running on ethanol? That the corn farmers are robber barons? That they shouldn't make a profit from the corn? We choose to use oil, like it or not. They simply provide it for us.
They have so many ways to hide so much money beyond what they are declaring after taxes. There is so much skimming off the top.
There is a reason that Envy is among the Seven Deadlies. Why is it that everytime someone (or business) gets and stays successful, the first charge levied at them by those who have less is that they couldn't possibly make that much money honestly? I mean, it can't possibly be that they are selling a product in high demand at a competetive price? Nah, it MUST be they are stealing from the poor man. Class envy is so unbecoming.
Finally, the best and brightest hat goes to Glass on this one.
Bush uses the excuse to invade Iraq and suddenly we are paying almost 4 times as much for oil TO THE SAUDI'S
First, most of the world's oil prices are set either directly or indirectly by OPEC. That includes: Algeria, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Kuwait, Libya, Nigeria, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates and Venezuela. Saudi Arabia does not dictate the price unilateraly nor does it receive any more profit (proportionately speaking) than any of the others.
Second, did you actually look at the chart you posted? The price of oil (per barrel) rose many times over the course of the timeline. Each of the spikes prior to the 90's had little or nothing to do with the U.S. They were reactions to threats to the supply. Even the one's we were involved in are similarly linked. A threat to one source of oil places a greater strain on the remainder. Greater Demand, greater price. I refuse to believe that as a business owner you don't understand this concept. The price of oil is currently increasing do to nothing more sinister than there are a hell of a lot more cars\trucks\suv's out in this world that run on it. Also, the plastics currently used in nearly everything we use come from what? That's right. Oil. More Demand...same supply...higher cost. It's that simple. Econ 101 stuff.
Finally to all the 'Big Oil Sucks' folks out there. You don't like the price of gas? Buy a bicycle. Work closer to home. Or, even better, invent a car that runs on complaints...you'd never have to worry about running out of fuel.
re-fold that tin foil and use it as a suppository...
oilies were making plenty of dough at lower prices. What happened? Did their fuel costs up?
Posted by glassman on :
October 2007 Federal Reserve Bank of Dallas
What's Driving Gasoline Prices? by Stephen P. A. Brown and Raghav Virmani
Anyone who regularly fills a car's gas tank knows U.S. pump prices have been high and volatile in recent years, whether measured in current or inflation-adjusted dollars (Chart 1). Most motorists are well aware that crude oil prices have surged to one record after another; yet the ups and downs in gasoline prices sometimes seem confusing. This spring, gasoline was getting more expensive at a time when oil prices were falling. Just a few months later, oil had been bid back up, but gasoline prices didn't seem to respond. These apparent disconnects prompted our examination of the forces that determine gasoline prices. Our econometric models confirm the traditional result that crude oil prices dominate movements in gasoline prices, but they also show that seasonal and nonseasonal movements in consumption, refinery production, imports and inventories influence gasoline prices in the short term. Including these other factors with crude oil price provides a nearly complete picture of gasoline pricing in the U.S. market.This year, some nonseasonal factors have been out of their normal ranges, contributing to gasoline price volatility and creating market conditions where prices are rising for gasoline and falling for oil, or vice versa. These events are unlikely to recur, so any disconnects should prove short-lived. Our most complete model suggests gasoline prices will retain their seasonal variations but decline slightly in the next few years, a result generally consistent with recent readings in the futures markets. http://www.dallasfed.org/research/eclett/2007/el0710.html
the "thing" is? they have been recurring for several years, oil prices have followed gasoline up and price supports have been established at each new high...
the general consensus on the streeet is that oil should be 80$ max...
speculators (read oil buyers/oil refiners) are buying contracts and holding for the higher price instead of selling...
Posted by glassman on :
the other issue is that the dollar is weakening due to too much borrowing by the Govt:
Oil Rises More Than $2 as Weak Dollar Spurs Commodity Purchases
By Mark Shenk
April 4 (Bloomberg) -- Crude oil rose more than $2 a barrel as the dollar fell against the euro, prompting investors to purchase commodities.
Glass, neither of these two charts supports the arguement that gas prices dictate oil costs. That's like saying the cost of shirts dictates the cost of cotton. Or, the cost of candybars dictates the cost of sugar. Cart before the horse and all that crap. The entire concept is ridiculous. For that to be true, the profit margin for the oil companies would have to be consistantly shrinking as oil prices rose. Otherwise, the increase cost in oil would mean higher prices in gas due to the increase being passed on at the pumps.
Your first chart is apples and oranges. It uses two seperate currencies to contrast the two items. This neither allows for fluctuations in value of the two currencies nor the economic pressures within the seperate nations. Even if you do take it at face value, save for the '79 spike, they both share an almost identical path even sharing most of their spikes. This tells us nothing about which was cause, and which was effect. The second chart has the same flaw, they both correlate to rise and decent. But nothing says which is leading the other.
If the U.S. had a major source of oil (that we could use), ie more SUPPLY, the price of oil would fall as we would have less DEMAND on foreign oil. Domestic sources would mean less transportation costs and thus lower price to consumers.
Tex, your eloquence astounds me. But, to answer your quip anyway; haven't you been bombarded by the news about rising oil prices 'down there on the frontline?' YES!! The oil is effectively their fuel (raw material) and it's been going up for awhile now. They have to pass that cost increase on to the consumer or they go out of business. You can't sell a product for less than it take to make it. Once again, Econ 101.
Posted by glassman on :
gas prices dictate oil costs
i've actually watched it on day to day basis.
this has only been happening since late '04...
Katrina, refinery fires and explosions, switching the seasonal blends, and there was also big hitch when they started trying to transport ethanol...
Tuesday, 4 Mar 2008 Hedge Funds: They're Dictating Oil Prices, Not Fundamentals Posted By:Sharon Epperson
You'd expect oil prices to take a bit of a breather after yesterday's record-breaking run that took NYMEX crude oil futures to an all-time high of $103.95/barrel intraday, surpassing the inflation-adjusted record reached more than a quarter century ago.
Yet today the market has been holding fairly steady, with some light profit-taking here and there, still prices oil holding steady ABOVE $100/barrel. Blame this record on the hedge funds once again. IT'S THE FUNDS, NOT FUNDAMENTAL DICTATING THE PRICE AGAIN IN THE ENERGY MARKETS THESE DAYS. The dollar is a major factor. As Greg Anderson, a currency strategist points out in today's Wall Street Journal, the price of oil and the euro's exchange rate against the dollar have moved in the same direction about 96 percent of the time from the start of 2007 until now. And traders are betting on this trend continuing.
Tradition Energy's director of research Addison Armstrong says: "The weakness of the dollar has drawn funds to the commodity markets at full speed." The latest data from the CFTC's Commitment of Traders report shows hedge funds and other large speculators bought more than $3 billion worth of crude oil in the last week bringing their total exposure to $9.2 billion. Meanwhile, these funds have increased their net long position by more than 50 percent, the biggest rise since the beginning of January. How can oil prices continue to climb when tomorrow's weekly report on U.S. crude supplies is expected to show oil supplies increased for the eighth week in a row and gasoline supplies are at their highest level since 1994?
the truth is? the fundamentals are completely "out of whack" and have been for awhile..
when oil goes back to 80$? the stocks will take off...
Posted by T e x on :
quote:Tex, your eloquence astounds me.
lol, not surprised: you know your way around a sentence and not too bad with paragraphs, either.
However? Logic, maybe not so much...
For instance, Glass is providing data (which I haven't checked, admittedly) re: market manipulation. Without verifying that data, I can however say it doesn't surprise me.
I built the reference system for ARCO Oil & Gas's Systems & Programming Dept. ... If you think the oilies are holding the line as best they can for the consumer, you're in line for some major disappointment.
Posted by glassman on :
Big oil companies are making most of their money by producing crude oil. They invested in oil fields when prices were much lower, with the expectation that they could break even at, say, $25 per barrel. Since the market price is now more than $70 a barrel, the extra money is gravy. It's like a farmer who can raise corn for $1.50 a bushel. If the market price is $1.75, he makes a quarter per bushel. If the market price jumps to $2.25, his profits jump as well. (If the market crashes to $1 per bushel, the farmer loses money. That can happen to oil companies as well.) Oil companies, like the farmer, are the beneficiaries of high market prices, but they can no more control those prices than a farmer can dictate what he gets for a bushel of corn.
BUT? farmers (and more importantly? seed growers/ dealers like Monsanto) DO control the price of corn Posted by T e x on :
quote:Originally posted by glassman: Big oil companies are making most of their money by producing crude oil. They invested in oil fields when prices were much lower, with the expectation that they could break even at, say, $25 per barrel. Since the market price is now more than $70 a barrel, the extra money is gravy. It's like a farmer who can raise corn for $1.50 a bushel. If the market price is $1.75, he makes a quarter per bushel. If the market price jumps to $2.25, his profits jump as well. (If the market crashes to $1 per bushel, the farmer loses money. That can happen to oil companies as well.) Oil companies, like the farmer, are the beneficiaries of high market prices, but they can no more control those prices than a farmer can dictate what he gets for a bushel of corn.
BUT? farmers (and more importantly? seed growers/ dealers like Monsanto) DO control the price of corn
You don't mean Joe Retail/family farms, eh? Unless something drastic has happened since I covered that area, independent farmers bought almost everything retail and sold almost everything wholesale.
Now, if you mean Cargill et al, corporate operations, that's different. The grain companies, for instance, employ a private network of reporters and analysts. Of course, their reports seldom see the light of public dissemination.
Posted by glassman on :
i mean the big ones. this year? there was a "convenient" shortage of soy seed...they expected everybody to want to plant more corn? maybe, or maybe they just want more corn.
Shortage of soybean seeds may hinder farmers this year March 12, 2008 - 8:29PM Sue Book Sun Journal
Soybean seeds are scarce for this year's planting, a particular concern for area farmers as the price of the commodity hits record highs.
"Suppliers are telling us there are no seeds," said Mike Carroll, extension agent for Craven County Cooperative Extension Service.
Mississippi Could See Soybean Seed Shortage in 2008 Northeast Mississippi Daily Journal (Tupelo, MS) (KRT) -- Mar. 12 -- TUPELO -- Soybean acreage in the state is expected to be the highest in a decade, hitting 2 million this year -- a 25 percent increase over last year.
PAID ADVERTISEMENT But growers who are getting ready to plant the crop next month are running into a potential problem -- not enough seed.
Last year, one bag of a particular type of soybean seed cost $14.95.
This year, Murphree said, the same bag goes for about $27.
how to "corner the market"
Posted by IWISHIHAD on :
quote: "That's like saying the Tourism industry in Hawaii or the Bahamas control way too much of their economies. That's what they do for a living. It's the tourists that freely choose to visit and spend the money. No undue pressure is made upon them. What are you going to say when we're running on ethanol? That the corn farmers are robber barons? That they shouldn't make a profit from the corn? We choose to use oil, like it or not. They simply provide it for us." _________________________________________________
You are not even close with that comparison.
Like i said before they are and elite group that's why they are called a Cartel.
I have never heard the tourism group in Hawaii or Bahamas called a Cartel probably for good reason.
Actually i am not sure who is what when it comes to corn and ethanol. The Government-Farmers sometimes it's hard to seperate them, but i can tell you this there are some law suits coming to help separate one of the problems and it's coming from food companies.
But then we are still left with the major problem- oil monopolies.
Posted by T e x on :
Glass, lol, I heard even tequilla price is affected cuz Mexican farmers are veering toward corn, even in areas that aren't corn-friendly (duh...cactus).
dunno, but that's something I ran across...
Posted by T e x on :
quote:Originally posted by IWISHIHAD: quote: "That's like saying the Tourism industry in Hawaii or the Bahamas control way too much of their economies. That's what they do for a living. It's the tourists that freely choose to visit and spend the money. No undue pressure is made upon them. What are you going to say when we're running on ethanol? That the corn farmers are robber barons? That they shouldn't make a profit from the corn? We choose to use oil, like it or not. They simply provide it for us." _________________________________________________
You are not even close with that comparison.
Like i said before they are and elite group that's why they are called a Cartel.
I have never heard the tourism group in Hawaii or Bahamas called a Cartel probably for good reason.
Actually i am not sure who is what when it comes to corn and ethanol. The Government-Farmers sometimes it's hard to seperate them, but i can tell you this there are some law suits coming to help separate one of the problems and it's coming from food companies.
But then we are still left with the major problem- oil monopolies.
DOH!
Tourism is like an elective...
a lark for those with excess cash.
Most of the guys who build and repair America's "stuff" have NO CHOICE, and we are getting PHUCKED at the pump. Personally, I don't understand how anyone can in good conscience buy even a gallon for their lawn mower from EXXON...
Posted by glassman on :
soy doesn't make ethanol... but it can be used to make bio-deisel...
Posted by T e x on :
diesel...another bs problem.
easier to make than gasoline, yet now way higher in price.
stoopid
Posted by IWISHIHAD on :
quote:
"diesel...another bs problem.
easier to make than gasoline, yet now way higher in price.
I always heard it was much cheaper to process. Was never sure how true.
It is now $1.00 more a gallon than regular gasoline.
A guy the other day was filling up next to me complaining because he bought a diesel truck figuring the diesel price would be cheaper.
He said he spends a lot of time in Mexico and pays $2.00 plus a gallon down there. I do not know that to be a fact just took it for what it was worth.
Posted by T e x on :
quote:Originally posted by IWISHIHAD: quote:
"diesel...another bs problem.
easier to make than gasoline, yet now way higher in price.
I always heard it was much cheaper to process. Was never sure how true.
It is now $1.00 more a gallon than regular gasoline.
A guy the other day was filling up next to me complaining because he bought a diesel truck figuring the diesel price would be cheaper.
He said he spends a lot of time in Mexico and pays $2.00 plus a gallon down there. I do not know that to be a fact just took it for what it was worth.
In a just world, you have now written the synopsis for the next hit song...
Posted by Relentless. on :
quote:Originally posted by Bob Frey: In just one year . Remember the election in 2006?
Thought you might like to read the following:
A little over one year ago:
1) Consumer confidence stood at a 2 1/2 year high; 2) Regular gasoline sold for $2.19 a gallon; 3) The unemployment rate was 4.5%.
Since voting in a Democratic Congress in 2006 we have seen:
1) Consumer confidence plummet; 2) The cost of regular gasoline soar to over $3.50 a gallon; 3) Unemployment is up to 5% (a 10% increase); 4) American households have seen $2.3 trillion in equity value evaporate (stock and mutual fund losses); 5) Americans have seen their home equity drop by $1.2 trillion dollars; 6) 1% of American homes are in foreclosure.
America voted for change in 2006, and we got it!
Remember it's Congress that makes law not the President. He has to work with what's handed to him.
A liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own.
Yeah I voted for him too... Doesn't mean he's not a retard though. Bush has alot of blame to bear... As do we all. This blame cannot alone be laid at the doorstep of our idiot representatives... It must be accepted by us first for allowing it. we are the idiots who gather towards the type of gossip that allowed us to attack any nation which had not first attacked us. We are the morons who gather all too eagerly to believe every little murmur that the 24/7's "force" into our ears. The blame game is just too easy when it is aimed at "them". We are to blame. You AND me.
Posted by glassman on :
quote:Originally posted by SeekingFreedom: Tex,
Make sure you know who those 'windfall profits' are going to...
[i]Estimated profit per gallon for Exxon is .10 cents. The feds take you for upwards of .18 cents per gallon. New York gas taxes equal an additional .68 cents per gallon. So who's gouging you now?[\i]
Big Governement could drop your price at the pump in some states by as much as a dollar if they really cared...which is why they haven't.
here's more evidence to prove to you that the oil co's were (note the date) in fact manipulating the prices of gasoline, it was going up while oil was going down:
Exxon Mobil profit rises 10 percent By Joe Carroll Bloomberg News Published: April 27, 2007
HOUSTON: Exxon Mobil, the world's biggest oil company, said Thursday that its earnings rose 10 percent in the first quarter after increasing demand lifted prices for gasoline and diesel fuel, widening profit margins on refining.
"Even though they're not getting as much for the oil coming out of the ground, their whole refining and marketing process is holding up strongly," said Barry James at James Investment Research in Xenia, Ohio.
U.S. retail gasoline prices rose 1.5 cents a gallon, or 0.5 euro cent a liter, from a year earlier while crude prices fell, reducing production costs for refiners. Exxon Mobil, based in Irving, Texas, refines twice as much crude as it pumps from wells.
Gasoline demand in the United States, the world's biggest market for the fuel, rose 1.7 percent during the first quarter, more than twice the rate of growth a year earlier, U.S. Energy Department data showed. The average U.S. profit margin on refining jumped to $12.43 a barrel of oil processed.
there's more facts in the article to support the hypothesis that the Oil Co's are, in general, well in control of the price of fuel...
Exxon made more money this last year off of exploration and oil pumping than they did off refining... Higher commodity prices in the quarter were clearly evident from earnings at Exxon Mobil’s exploration and production arm, known as the upstream. Income rose 32 percent to $8.2 billion from $6.2 billion a year ago. Refining and marketing, or downstream, earnings were $2.3 billion, up from nearly 2 billion in the year-ago quarter, as improved refining operations offset lower U.S. refining margins.
as a matter of fact? the kind of money they "invest" in exploration? 4-5 billion$ would buy one hellofalot of solar panels or wind generators.... the US govt should "encourage" them to consider spending more of their money in this direction IMO...
i personally do not begrudge them their profits. what i do find annoying is how the US Govt has allowed the oil industry to become so non-competitive.
Posted by SeekingFreedom on :
Ok, I've lost track of what you're trying to say, Glass.
Let's focus on one article at a time because I think we're coming to two different conclusions using the same information. The Iht.com article starts out with this:
...after increasing demand lifted prices for gasoline and diesel fuel, widening profit margins on refining.
Continuing,
..."Even though they're not getting as much for the oil coming out of the ground, their whole refining and marketing process is holding up strongly"...
That means they are making more money from the refinment and selling of finished produce (using their own oil themselves) than from selling the raw oil to other companies.
...U.S. retail gasoline prices rose 1.5 cents a gallon, or 0.5 euro cent a liter, from a year earlier while crude prices fell, reducing production costs for refiners...
So, they had no need to dramatically increase the cost to the consumer because their production costs were down. 1.5 cents over the course of a year doesn't even keep pace with inflation.
...Exxon Mobil, based in Irving, Texas, refines twice as much crude as it pumps from wells...
Where does the extra oil come from if not from their own wells? Imporation. That means they have to pay the going rate for it, however high that may be.
...Gasoline demand in the United States, the world's biggest market for the fuel, rose 1.7 percent during the first quarter, more than twice the rate of growth a year earlier, U.S. Energy Department data showed. The average U.S. profit margin on refining jumped to $12.43 a barrel of oil processed...
and
...Worldwide demand for refined fuels including gasoline and diesel is expected to rise 1.8 percent this year, according to the International Energy Agency...
As demand increases, both here and abroad prices will increase as well. If China is willing to pay more for a commodity than we are, why would someone not sell to them? Or, if it had enough for both, why sell at less than China is willing to pay?
Now, onto the MSNBC article. After the report about how much money they are bringing in (which you quoted in your post), they talk about where that money came from. Most of the profit was from the selling of crude oil from it's oil fields to refineries all over the world. As we talked about earlier, this price is based on the global market which is influenced by all of the players. OPEC and others like Exxon. No one group gets to set the price any more than one grocery store sets the price of apples. If the store sets the price too high, people will go to another supplier. If it low balls the price, it cuts it's profits while it's competition is still selling at the higher price and making more money to grow their business. Neither makes much business sense. That is why prices (globally speaking) tend to hover around a 'norm' and unless something external affects the market, it remains more or less unchanged.
Oh, one more thing from this article that you didn't post.
...In the U.S., downstream earnings were off sharply from a year ago — $622 million in the most-recent quarter versus $945 million in 2006.
Refining margins — the difference between the cost of crude and what the company makes on refined products such as gasoline — have been squeezed in recent months as spiking oil prices outpaced increases in gasoline prices and other refined products...
Wait, did that say Big Oil's profit from the refinement and selling of gasoline has gone DOWN? You mean they aren't making more money off of us gas addicts than they were in the past? How could that be? It's because the rising oil may help one division of Exxon Mobil, but it also hurts it's profit margin in another. It has to buy oil to refine (at it's current outputs of both). The rising costs don't help it in this field.
If you feel that I've misunderstood what your articles mean, please show me how you read the same information. Finally, a mostly rhetorical question but feel free to answer. In our capitalist society, what kind of 'encouragment' would you want the government to assert on Big Oil (or any other company making a legal profit)? The carrot, or the stick?
Posted by glassman on :
..."Even though they're not getting as much for the oil coming out of the ground, their whole refining and marketing process is holding up strongly"...
That means they are making more money from the refinment and selling of finished produce (using their own oil themselves) than from selling the raw oil to other companies.
no. that means they are reducing the amount of gasoline they refine. this reduces supplies and TRADERS trade it up..
now who are the traders?
i beleive you are missing a big peiece of how the commodity futures and options markets really work..
Full size crude futures contracts represent 1000 barrels of oil. Required account margin is $4,050 and controls about $60,000 worth of crude. This is about 6% leverage, good faith money down. Each full point move means $1,000. A move from $30 to $40 a barrel equates to a $10,000 profit or loss.
the reality is that the whole process runs on borrowed money.
now from today's news? we see it again:
Gas prices add to record gains; oil prices jump Refiners have cut back on gasoline production due to low profit margin
updated 1 hour, 15 minutes ago
NEW YORK - Gas prices rose further into record territory Monday, pulled higher by resurgent oil futures and a growing belief that gasoline supplies are falling as the summer driving season approaches.
Gas prices are following crude futures higher, but they’re also rising on concerns about supplies and demand. Analysts say refiners have cut back on gasoline production due to low profit margins; the rising price of crude means it costs them more to refine gas.
Despite last week’s increase, Caruso expects demand for gasoline to fall by 85,000 barrels a day this summer compared to last due to high prices and the weak economy, Dow Jones reported. That would be the first summertime decline in gasoline demand since 1991.
To date, however, falling demand has failed to deflate surging gas prices, which are putting more pressure on consumers already suffering from higher food prices,
now this CUT in gasoline production will in fact raise the price of gasoline, and oil will FOLLOW it up even more... it's been like this steadily for about 4 years now.
this is because the traders have enough cash (and leverage) to keep it up....
the oil co's have had a perfect storm, but they have also been able to control supply of oil and gasoline very easily because there is NO competition.
which is my point, there is no competition, and this is not a free market economy.
Posted by glassman on :
here it is again in '06
Exxon Rides Oil and Gas Prices to 36% Gain in Profit
By CLIFFORD KRAUSS Published: July 28, 2006
Revenue climbed 12 percent, to $99 billion, despite a slowdown in production at several company refineries because of repairs. The revenue was second only to Exxon’s third quarter of last year.
they are one of the few corps in the world that actually make MORE money by CUTTING production.
that's not the free market at work...
BTW? i am in serious doubt about them only making 10cents per gallon as you posted...
they make much more money than that, but they do it on the oil production side, production THEY also control...
Posted by Lockman on :
I think the gas station owners are limited to their profits. The middle man makes a bundle.
Posted by glassman on :
quote:Originally posted by glassman: updated 1 hour, 15 minutes ago
NEW YORK - Gas prices rose further into record territory Monday, pulled higher by resurgent oil futures and a growing belief that gasoline supplies are falling as the summer driving season approaches.
Gas prices are following crude futures higher, but they’re also rising on concerns about supplies and demand. Analysts say refiners have cut back on gasoline production due to low profit margins; the rising price of crude means it costs them more to refine gas.
Despite last week’s increase, Caruso expects demand for gasoline to fall by 85,000 barrels a day this summer compared to last due to high prices and the weak economy, Dow Jones reported. That would be the first summertime decline in gasoline demand since 1991.
To date, however, falling demand has failed to deflate surging gas prices, which are putting more pressure on consumers already suffering from higher food prices,
now this CUT in gasoline production will in fact raise the price of gasoline, and oil will FOLLOW it up even more... it's been like this steadily for about 4 years now.
and here it is again.... 111$+
Posted by glassman on :
good greif:
U.S. Seeks More Oil for Reserve
Posted on: Tuesday, 8 April 2008, 00:00 CDT
By The Associated Press
WASHINGTON (AP)- The Energy Department said Friday it would continue putting oil into the Strategic Petroleum Reserve even as crude oil prices remain above $100 a barrel.
The department announced a solicitation of bids for 13 million barrels of oil, with deliveries expected to begin in August, when the current delivery contracts expire. Oil will be put into the reserve at about 76,000 barrels per day through December.
The government reserve, which was created to serve as a cushion against major oil supply disruptions, has a capacity of 727 million barrels. It now holds about 700 million barrels.
The department isn't buying the oil directly. It takes oil in lieu of royalty payments on oil pumped from public lands. That oil is then traded for the type of crude needed for the reserve and delivered by the contracting company. The reserve is on the Gulf Coast.
i don't expect these guys to tap into the reserve to deflate oil prices, but for crying out loud, they are bidding the price higher.
IMO? this is just one more sign that Bush intends to "act" against Iran before he leaves office....
"Not only are taxpayers being fleeced by paying that much for oil, but the effect of taking valuable oil, like sweet crude oil, off the market has a disproportionate effect on oil prices," Dorgan has argued.
Isn't ANWAR all the petrolium reserve that we need?
Posted by glassman on :
quote:Originally posted by The Bigfoot: Isn't ANWAR all the petrolium reserve that we need?
we import 12 million barrels per day of oil...
so? the SPR represents about 60 days of maintaining our supply at "normal" levels...
there is a catch tho... we can only draw down about 4 million BPD from it...
ANWR has about 10 billion barrels of "proven "reserves (depending on who is doing the "proving")
delivering it in a hurry is the problem...
Posted by glassman on :
Crude oil prices hit a new all-time intraday high after the Energy Department reported a surprise decline in U.S. oil inventories.
The government said inventories slid by 3.2 million barrels last week -- a surprise for Wall Street given analysts surveyed by Dow Jones forecasted a 2.4 million barrel increase. Also, the Energy Department said gasoline inventories declined by 3.4 million barrels last week.
how come nobody is asking why inventories are low?
it remains unclear whether the higher gas prices will be enough to help refiners offset higher costs for crude, especially since cash-strapped consumers are conserving more and driving less. Demand for gasoline fell last week by nearly 2 percent from year-ago levels, the Energy Department said in its weekly inventory report.
did somebody spring a leak and it all just drained into a black hole?
maybe the oil execs decided to "misplace" a few million barrels after they got called to testify on Capital Hill?
Posted by The Bigfoot on :
My position is that there is no real such thing as "normal" levels when speaking of petroleum.
We have had a huge run up in gasoline costs but, quite frankly, the rest of the world has been paying prices that we are only now beginning to see for quite some time. 1st world Europe didn't have the clout of America to bargain for the basement prices and smaller countries didn't have the purchasing power. I remember back in 95 seeing gas in Belize at approximately $10 US per gallon.
I do understand the need to have an available supply for rapid distribution in case of crisis but honestly...oil prices are only going to go up from here. The longer we are able to delay tapping into the ANWAR reserve the more valuable that reserve will become. Let the market dictate forces. It is what Wall Street CEO's have championed for years while defending exorbitant compensations. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Those who learn to live without will be the winners and we will have a hugely valuable commodity once everyone else has gone dry.
Posted by T e x on :
there's no shortage of oil, Big.
only a shortage of competition...
Posted by T e x on :
granted, at 1950's technology? then *there* would a problem.
Today, is basically price gouging.
Posted by glassman on :
the rest of the world has been paying prices that we are only now beginning to see for quite some time.
part of the issue is scale. the other part is how we built up our country.
US suburbia was designed around cheap transportation. Europe was not. in the US? the average commute time is 24 minutes...
how many people can walk to the grocery store? our whole system is biased to the car.
and? the whole world pays the same wholesale prices:
In most of the industrialized world, including Europe and Japan, pump prices are much higher than in the U.S. – even though the wholesale price is roughly the same. The difference is a heavy tax load those countries impose to discourage consumption.
The Dutch have the dubious distinction of paying the most to fill 'er up, according to the U.S. Deptatment of Energy. (There are various agencies that track gasoline prices, but these are among the most recent figures available.) As of April 10, drivers in the Netherlands were paying the equivalent of about $6.73 a gallon at the pump. The gas itself cost $2.61; the rest — $4.12 — represented tax. That’s a 158 percent tax. By comparison, the U.S. has the lowest tax on gasoline of any industrialized country: about 15 percent at current prices.
ANWAR is only one of the sources of oil we own but won't touch because of the various special interest groups. We know of several locations of off shore oil deposits in the Gulf, but the tourism industries in states like Florida are fighting tooth and nail to stop any attempts to drill. Maine is having a similar problem except it is with off shore wind power. Until the price of our lifestyle gets to the point when we tell these small yet influencial groups to take a hike, we will be slaves to foreign countries with big oil reserves.
Glass,
I hear what your citing, but I just don't understand how you're getting to your conclusions. I accept that the market is being artificially driven by the speculators. I fail to see how you blame this on the big oil companies. They are subject to the increased price of crude just like everyone else. As I posted from your IHT.com article, Exxon has to BUY as much oil to refine as it extracts from its fields. It makes no sense to say that the rising price helps them because whatever they make from their oil is eliminated when they have to buy more oil to refine. In addition, the are in the business of making money when all else is said and done. If the government makes it harder to make a profit from the selling of gas, it's not going to increase competition, it's going to drive the smaller oil companies out of business. This WindFall tax crap isn't new, it was tried by Carter in 1980 (that Carter tried should tell you right there it isn't well thought out) with predictable results.
Understand, I don't think they have our best interests in mind by any means. But they do understand that they can only push the price so far before people change their driving habits and buy less product which hurts their bottom line.
Still Econ 101.
Posted by IWISHIHAD on :
quote:
It makes no sense to say that the rising price helps them because whatever they make from their oil is eliminated when they have to buy more oil to refine. _________________________________________________
Doesn't help them? I noticed their profits have been horrible the last few years.
Posted by Machiavelli on :
quote:Originally posted by Bob Frey: In just one year . Remember the election in 2006?
Thought you might like to read the following:
A little over one year ago:
1) Consumer confidence stood at a 2 1/2 year high; 2) Regular gasoline sold for $2.19 a gallon; 3) The unemployment rate was 4.5%.
Since voting in a Democratic Congress in 2006 we have seen:
1) Consumer confidence plummet; 2) The cost of regular gasoline soar to over $3.50 a gallon; 3) Unemployment is up to 5% (a 10% increase); 4) American households have seen $2.3 trillion in equity value evaporate (stock and mutual fund losses); 5) Americans have seen their home equity drop by $1.2 trillion dollars; 6) 1% of American homes are in foreclosure.
America voted for change in 2006, and we got it!
Remember it's Congress that makes law not the President. He has to work with what's handed to him.
A liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own.
Sorry Bob , i respect you in terms of stock trading but your totally wrong on this list. The buck started with Bush and will end with Bush. The Democrats only walked into what was going to happen anyway. Oil has always been on the rise during Bush's reign and even more so when he invaded Iraq. $2.19 a gallon? please tell me where because i need to move there lol The plummet in the equities market and home equity? We'll hmmm the interest rate went down alot since 9/11 with Bush in charge which led to abuses in the sub prime mortgage industry which in turn led to it's collapse and effect on the stock market. Was Bush's policies that led to this and this started years ago not 1 year ago. This led to home equity going down and foreclosures on the rise. A Democrat congress did not pass laws asking for higher gas prices, devalue the dollar, prey on the poor or bad credit consumers to take on mortgages they cannot afford, etc.. etc..
Like I said the Democrats walked into a problem they did not create and was going to happen anyway and now they are trying to fix it but it takes more then 1 year to solve such problems and not overnight. On the other hand Bush is much like a CEO of a big Corporation, and when said Corporation has financial problems or collapses he should be a man and take responsibility. Not lay blame on the Board of Directors or stockholders.
As for everyone else with their oil price argument. The oil industry is much like the diamond industry with their monopolistic cartels. Those who control the supply can and do force the price to go up or down and cause demand to increase or decrease. The buck starts with them and continues on with market manipulation or speculation in the commodities markets such as NYMEX etc. Other factors also cause the rise such as Iraq, Katrina, other natural disasters or political situations around the world but far and large the control of supply while demand is high or rises does the trick first and foremost... all other factors contribute to it afterwards...
Posted by Propertymanager on :
quote:A liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own.
A liberal (socialist) is someone who wants to TAKE everything from those that are productive and give it to the lazy for the purpose of keeping them enslaved by the handouts. Does it work? Billary and Barack Hussein are both actively campaigning on taking profits from the oil companies, big pharma, and any other attractive targets for the purpose of giving more handouts to anyone that will vote for them.
quote:A Democrat congress did not pass laws asking for higher gas prices, devalue the dollar, prey on the poor or bad credit consumers to take on mortgages they cannot afford, etc.. etc..
When you're right, you're right - and you're right on this issue. Both parties have been on a spending spree for many years - buying votes with handouts. Unfortunately, it is just about time to pay the bill and we don't have it. Oops! Can you say DEPRESSION? It doesn't matter who's in office, a depression is absolutely inevitable and will certainly happen in the next few years (if it doesn't start this year). A depression would already have started if the government didn't bail out Bear Stearns. Countries can only spend more than they have for a period of time. The US has given everything to everyone. It's gotten so ridiculous that no-one is allowed to fail in the US. Take out a mortgage you can't afford? No problem - your compassionate government will bail you out. Run an investment bank recklessly? No problem, your compassionate government will bail you out. Live next to a river and too stupid to get insurance? Don't worry, your compassionate government will bail you out after the flood.
GET REAL!
Posted by jordanreed on :
PMS says ..
"A liberal (socialist) is someone who wants to TAKE everything from those that are productive and give it to the lazy for the purpose of keeping them enslaved by the handouts. Does it work? Billary and Barack Hussein are both actively campaigning on taking profits from the oil companies, big pharma, and any other attractive targets for the purpose of giving more handouts to anyone that will vote for them."
as usual...nothing productive to add.!You are so off base its laughable.I'd like to be a fly on the wall when you hang out with your "friends" (thats assuming that anyone can stand your company). Moroons! Posted by jordanreed on :
we have over 9 TRILLION (9,000 billion, or 9,000,000 millions) dollars in national debt. (Over 50% of that debt was incurred while a Bush was in office. Throw in Reagan and you've got over 70% of the national debt being incurred under 3 Republican presidents. Where did the myth of Republican fiscal responsibility come from? HA!) Yes, the people in our government continue to vote themselves pay raises, and give themselves the best retirement plan on the planet with the taxpayer's money. Yes, the middle class continues to shoulder the lion's share of the tax burden, while corporations and the wealthy can afford to build assorted shelters. Yes, we're bleeding money that we borrowed from China into a misguided war. Yes, we have a Republican candidate for president that believes we should continue to follow Bush's policies in Iraq for the next 100 years, and that may be the most morally, ethically, and financially obtuse campaign rhetoric on the planet. Ever. We've also got a democratic nominee determined to have her way regardless of the consequences. She can't possibly beat the Republican candidate, and she's going to tear apart the party anyhow.
Posted by glassman on :
quote:Originally posted by SeekingFreedom:
Glass,
I hear what your citing, but I just don't understand how you're getting to your conclusions. I accept that the market is being artificially driven by the speculators. I fail to see how you blame this on the big oil companies. They are subject to the increased price of crude just like everyone else. As I posted from your IHT.com article, Exxon has to BUY as much oil to refine as it extracts from its fields. It makes no sense to say that the rising price helps them because whatever they make from their oil is eliminated when they have to buy more oil to refine. In addition, the are in the business of making money when all else is said and done. If the government makes it harder to make a profit from the selling of gas, it's not going to increase competition, it's going to drive the smaller oil companies out of business. This WindFall tax crap isn't new, it was tried by Carter in 1980 (that Carter tried should tell you right there it isn't well thought out) with predictable results.
Let the market handle it. It may be slow, but it generally works better than the alternatives.
Understand, I don't think they have our best interests in mind by any means. But they do understand that they can only push the price so far before people change their driving habits and buy less product which hurts their bottom line.
Still Econ 101.
here's my point again..
you say, let the market handle it.
i'm telling you in no uncertain terms that there is no Free Market.
the top five oil co's represent more market share than the next 20 combined.
if they slow production of gasoline? the traders push the price of gasoline up. oil follows almost immediately. Bush's policy of increasing the strategic oil reserves has HELPED them do this. it has increased from about 500 million barrels to 700 million barrels.
the other issue that is at play here is that Nationalised Oil ownership (which is contradictory to US policies and principles)interests are also setting the amount of oil that is available on the markets.
i am against allowing any nationalised or Sovereign Wealth Funds investing in the US.
the fact is? Bush's policies have caused the world to react in concerted way. Look around, it isn't US against the world, it is each of us individuals against the nations of the world.
as we sit here and pretend that we are the most powerful economy in the world? the governments of the world are bleeding US dry.
our trade deficits are a disgrace, and oil is the leading cause.
as for you saying that whatever they make from their oil is eliminated when they have to buy more oil to refine
that makes no sense to me. they still make a hellofalot more than if they had to buy it all.
as for your little EIA lesson? you still don't understand how the markets work if you really think that covers half of what's going on...
prices have been supported each time they stepped higher because of careful control of the flow of oil.. each "disruption" caused a spike which was never fully "recovered" from...
as far as i'm concerned? the Bush/Cheney Energy plan was to do just this. blaming big oil? they are just part of the equation, but their complicitness is also the key, because it only takes ONE oil co to NOT go along with the plan, and it won't work....
there is no shortage of oil, we are not producing oil worldwide at full capacity. the prices are being "created" by the suppliers and it is in fact a national security issue as you will soon see if the prices stay this high for the next year.
Posted by Propertymanager on :
quote:Where did the myth of Republican fiscal responsibility come from? HA!)
Jordan, you might be surprised to find out that I wholeheartedly agree with you. George Bush is NOT a conservative and has greatly harmed our economy. I am for fighting the war on radical Islam in the mideast, so I think the money spent on the war has been well spent. However, I think the runaway spending and the Medicare Prescription Plan have been disasters for our economy.
quote:it is in fact a national security issue as you will soon see if the prices stay this high for the next year
ABSOLUTELY RIGHT!
Posted by glassman on :
I am for fighting the war on radical Islam in the mideast
Petraeus said in testimony this week that AQI (alqueda iraq) was at most a "couple thousand" members...
do you seriously believe that we should be spending 12billion$ a month to fight 2000 men?
this is totally insane, and until the people who want to fight a war realise that the FBI and the CIA could do a BETTER job at 1/1,000,000th the cost? our economy is doomed.
Posted by The Bigfoot on :
Here is my little lesson in the free market.
Parking ramp for the arena jumps their event parking price by 25%. The next day we jump our price to match (we have to, otherwise we'd have a ramp full of arena goers and no spots for our own customers) the next week the surface lots up their price because we both up'd ours. A few weeks later the price change has had effect to the outskirts of the downtown area. The outside cheap lots notice the parking change and decides it is time to boost their own revenues. Thing is..they aren't close enough for event parking so instead they up their contract rates. Next day, the lots around them notice the change. Next week they up their rate for new contracts. You get the trend and it ends up with both original ramps upping contract parking as well.
Why the increase in the first place? No costs didn't increase (parking industry is nearly all profit), no there wasn't really a change in demand, the only thing that happened was that prices were stable for a year or two. It'll happen again soon and it has nothing to do with the cost of doing business.
Posted by Propertymanager on :
That's part of the story, but in the real world if the parking lot business becomes that lucrative, new entrepreneurs will enter the market and build their own parking lots with the intention of undercutting the price of the high-priced parking lots. Before long, the market would be flooded with parking lots and parking lots would be competing for the customers. Prices would drop to a level lower than the original level due to competition and the customer would be smiling.
That's the way a free market works.
Posted by The Bigfoot on :
Except...the city doesn't want a city of nothing but parking lots. And so anything that isn't existing has to go through a very lengthy approvals process before being allowed to build. I know of two winning approval in the last 5 years. One for a hospital and one owned by the city itself.
Posted by glassman on :
quote:Originally posted by Bob Frey: In just one year . Remember the election in 2006?
Thought you might like to read the following:
A little over one year ago:
1) Consumer confidence stood at a 2 1/2 year high; 2) Regular gasoline sold for $2.19 a gallon; 3) The unemployment rate was 4.5%.
Since voting in a Democratic Congress in 2006 we have seen:
1) Consumer confidence plummet; 2) The cost of regular gasoline soar to over $3.50 a gallon; 3) Unemployment is up to 5% (a 10% increase); 4) American households have seen $2.3 trillion in equity value evaporate (stock and mutual fund losses); 5) Americans have seen their home equity drop by $1.2 trillion dollars; 6) 1% of American homes are in foreclosure.
America voted for change in 2006, and we got it!
Remember it's Congress that makes law not the President. He has to work with what's handed to him.
A liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own.
Hey i just got a very similar email (kinda freaky huh?)
Before George W. Bush’s “surge in Iraq”…!
1) Consumer confidence stood at a 2 1/2 year high 2) Regular gasoline sold for $2.19 a gallon 3) The unemployment rate was [4.5]%.
Since Dubyah’s “surge in Iraq”…!
1)Consumer confidence plummets 2) The cost of regular gasoline soars to $4 a gallon [in California]; 3) Unemployment is up to [5.7]% (a 12% increase); 4) American households have seen $2.3 trillion in equity value evaporate (stock and mutual fund losses) 5) Americans have seen their home equity drop by $1.2 trillion dollars; 6) [3]% of American homes are in foreclosure.
who'dathunkit?
Posted by T e x on :
quote:Originally posted by The Bigfoot: Except...the city doesn't want a city of nothing but parking lots. And so anything that isn't existing has to go through a very lengthy approvals process before being allowed to build. I know of two winning approval in the last 5 years. One for a hospital and one owned by the city itself.
and...
location, location, location...
in Prop's model? the new lots would have to provide a shuttle.
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