posted
CBO now estimates the insurance coverage provisions of Obamacare will cost about $1.1 trillion through 2021. Contrary to claims made at the time of passage, Obamacare will indeed impact the federal deficit. The current estimate of the gross costs of coverage provisions is $1.496 trillion - $50 billion higher than previous estimates. Spending on Obamacare will increase federal deficits by $1.08 trillion - a far cry from President Obama’s initial promise of “bending the cost curve” with a “deficit-neutral” program. CBO’s numbers are static projections, and therefore most likely to be lower bounds. The actual figures could easily, and probably will be, much higher.
From Philip Klein, writing at the Washington Examiner yesterday:
President Obama’s national health care law will cost $1.76 trillion over a decade, according to a new projection released today by the Congressional Budget Office, rather than the $940 billion forecast when it was signed into law. …
Today, the CBO released new projections from 2013 extending through 2022, and the results are as critics expected: the ten-year cost of the law’s core provisions to expand health insurance coverage has now ballooned to $1.76 trillion. That’s because we now have estimates for Obamacare’s first nine years of full implementation, rather than the mere six when it was signed into law. Only next year will we get a true ten-year cost estimate, if the law isn’t overturned by the Supreme Court or repealed by then. Given that in 2022, the last year available, the gross cost of the coverage expansions are $265 billion, we’re likely looking at about $2 trillion over the first decade, or more than double what Obama advertised. (emphasis added)
Ahem.
The result is that the effect on the federal budget from 2017-2019 has gone from a projected “savings” of $8 billion to an increased deficit of $453 billion. What a disaster. Unless the Supreme Court bails us out, repealing this law and replacing it with a more market-oriented solution is critical.
posted
Guess we will need to "raise revenues" meaning, raise taxes to pay for this debacle. Look, its not the intent that is wrong with this whole thing its the way it was put together and implemented. It was a toxic process involving bribes and strong arming to get approval.
You can end oil subsidies and its just a coin in the change jar compared to what this is ballooning into, then what?
This thing costs MORE than Iraq and Afghanistan COMBINED! Thats as of today, and the costs are going to keep going up.
-------------------- It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so.
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The Congressional Budget Office said Friday that President Barack Obama’s tax and spending policies will yield $6.4 trillion in deficits over the next decade, more than double the shortfall in CBO’s own fiscal baseline — even after taking credit for reduced war costs.
quote:Originally posted by glassman: cuz EVERYTHING is going up?
"Thanks to the Affordable Care Act, we're keeping costs down and making health care more affordable," wrote Nancy-Ann DeParle, deputy chief of staff for policy, on the official White House Blog.
But an in-depth look at that report reveals that Obamacare has done little thus far to slow the growth of American health spending. In fact, the federal health care reform effort is already increasing the share of spending shouldered by taxpayers. Worse yet, the implementation of Obamacare has barely begun.
While campaigning for the White House, President Obama repeatedly pledged that his health reform package would lower the average family's annual premiums $2,500 by the end of his first term. He's got about a year to fulfill his promise - and it doesn't look as if he'll succeed.
With all these data in the mix, it's hard to see how the White House could crow about "keeping costs down and making health care more affordable." Instead, Obamacare is driving up health costs for Americans today - and saddling the next generation with trillions of dollars in new health care liabilities.
posted
if we truly want to call ourselves a great nation,then national healthcare is a must!...all this talk about the cost is nothing more than a smokescreen by the right ...made to scare the uninformed into voting obama out. That is their priority..first and foremost. It was said the day he was elected and will continue on till he is elected again. Out and out lies and innuendo is all the right has. pathetic bunch of losers.
First, the most recent report that Republicans are crowing about extends to 2022. A full year of full implementation beyond the original report. Hence an added year of cost.
Second, CBO has determined that it was too generous in its last update regarding unemployment and has added to the amount expected to be spent on medicaid for low income earners.
The expected costs hasn't changed. The amount of people who will need the safety net provisions has grown. That's all. In fact, though gross costs are expected to increase CBO says net costs are likely to go down.
posted
CCM, you been on this site for a long time and I know you actively trade. That means you are smart enough to crunch numbers. Do the math and show me where I (and NBC) are wrong.
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posted
so, SCOTUS is deciding whetehr or not we can force people to buy healthcare.
I say they cannot by my interpretation of the Constitution.
you know what is sad about this? We are headed to a place where people will belegally turned away from health care like ER's for lack of funds.
The other option is Govt provided health care for all, and an option tonot particpate if you don't want. You'll still have to pay for it in your taxes tho...
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posted
what really cracks me up is that if the "conservative" judges dump this? they'll set precedent for repealing all control of drugs by the Feds. so they prolly won't even tho they should
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quote:Originally posted by CashCowMoo: There is an individual mandate of control of drugs by the feds?
nope, but the right of the Feds to control drugs is "granted" according to SCOTUS under the commerce clause. So is this case.
of course, i have never beleived they have the right to control drugs either but the point is that once they begin to erode the power granted under of the commerce clause, precedents are set and new cases get brought back to be "re"defined...
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posted
This health care debate is pretty juicy, and it looks like team obama isnt faring to well in it either. A lot of people who support the individual mandate forcing americans to purchase something sure have a lot of faith in the government.
Take this forum for example, everyone keeps telling me how the government is screwed up and they are all the same, but when it comes to trusting the government to run their health care they staunchly defend the government and in a way give the government full faith and credit to make the best decisions for themselves.
I cant even count how many vietnam vets I have talked to in waiting rooms at the VA hospital who have been bent over and screwed when it comes to getting government health care. Hell, I just talked to one today whos father was in the hospital and it sounded like the docs just gave up and were tired of dealing with him. I have seen so many doctors come and go and even in private express their frustration with their system. Its like a revolving door at the VA.
Then I speak with a friends mother who works at a local private practice and none of the nurses or doctors at the private practice want this new health care law. Everyone agrees that health care does need reform, but not an entire overhaul of the system with the federal government involved, and having the power to fine you thousands of dollars for not having it.
I know you all are big Obama fans, and are all pro health care law.....but im not buying it. Ive seen the massive list of new agencies and bloating of big government for this law and its just not right. They turned the need to reform health care into one big massive train wreck. They went about it the wrong way, and nobody even read the health care bill. They had the bill shoved into vote hours before the vote was taken before anyone had time to read it, and you cant even really read it...you need lawyers to read it. Not to mention the BRIBES it took to get Senators to vote for it so it could pass, and never forget Nancy Pelosi who said we have to pass the bill to see whats in it.
I am shocked at how much faith you all put into this mess, and how much faith you have in this government to know what is best for you.
-------------------- It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so.
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I hope one day to convince you otherwise but until then stick to what you believe.
I will dismantle a couple of your statements at the end there though because they aren't really your statements. They are talking points fed to those who want to oppose the bill.
A) The healthcare bill in its many forms while it was being shaped was available to be read. It is a big bill (not the biggest but big) that changed a number of times so a lot of people didn't or were confused when they tried, but it was available.
B) On this point also you say a lawyer is necessary to read it. In our legal society even a short term loan comes with 10 pages of gobbledegook. Of course it is going to be written in legal language, the republicans would have cut it to pieces if it weren't legally sound (which is what they are trying to do.)
C) There was an entire year of townhalls and press conferences and other meetings regarding the healthcare bill. You cannot say it was shoved into a vote. That is bull****! as Sanatorium would say.
D) Show me a law were senators didn't wheel and deal and I'll show you a bill that only a monster would have voted against. Do you even know what the Bribes were or is it just a buzz word that looks good in all CAPS?
E) Pelosi should never have taken control of the house, I agree. Was a stupid comment. I understand what she means (i.e. the bill isn't final until it passes so who knows what amendments will be added before the bill passes) but she seriously screwed the pooch with that comment.
F) I see no train wreck and we've had Obama care for a while now. What I've seen is my dad saving money on his cancer drugs and having no problems when he had to have three vertebrae removed to save his ability to walk.
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quote:Originally posted by CashCowMoo: I cant even count how many vietnam vets I have talked to in waiting rooms at the VA hospital who have been bent over and screwed when it comes to getting government health care.
cash, i am one of those vets. peacetime, not war injury but line of duty nonetheless. I was screwed over by the 'dispensary" on the first day i showed up with my injury by the corpsmen and it didn't get better until i got in peoples faces and risked severe disciplinary action..a simple seperated shoulder was misdaignosed for months and months, when i finally got in front of an orthopedic surgeon the guy (middleastern) turned white as sheet. He coulodn't beleive i had been walking around like that for 6 months. he operated three days later after giving me morphine immediately. , a pro-footabll player witht he same injury could have been playing agin in six weeks, but since my injury was not tended, th ecartiledge was all destroyed and basically gone. bone to bone in my right shoulder, and i am right handed.
In the VA i ran into the same BS. I actually got one Physicians assistna t fired at the Lincoln NE VA.
so i see your point abouyt the Govt.
here's the real problem tho.
i also happen to have very good private insurance, and i've been screwed over just as bad atnd even worse at Johns Hopkins Med center and several other private clinincs. Of course i cannot get them fired, i can only sue them.
lawsuits take years adn cost a fortune. I am willing to admit that i have "my own" way of getting what i want when dealing with govt peeps, but i do get it in th eend, while in the private sector, i've had nothing but th echoice to move on...
this isn ot a perfect world, people are all sinners and fallible. if we were "erfect"? communism would work just as well as capitalism. we aren't. the Govt is where we come to meet as -well- as the Citizens of the USA, and when it doesn't work it's our fault cash- yours and mine and everybodies. this notion that the govt can't do is pure bullcrap. we put a damn copper slug on comet millions of miles away with our govt. and that was done with the lowest bid
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posted
and just to drive the point home? Johns Hopkins would rather pay the fines associated with "losing" haha, my medical records than allow anybody to see them. the requests have been sent about 50 times...
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Glass I tried to get private insurance when I got out, but was denied and was given no reason, but I know why. So I know what you mean about private insurance and being refused for pre existing conditions.
So im saying why not cherry pick these problems and fix just those instead of screwing up the entire health care system?
Obama is big government.
-------------------- It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so.
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quote:Originally posted by CashCowMoo: Glass I tried to get private insurance when I got out, but was denied and was given no reason, but I know why. So I know what you mean about private insurance and being refused for pre existing conditions.
So im saying why not cherry pick these problems and fix just those instead of screwing up the entire health care system?
Obama is big government.
Finally the truth comes out. You can't even get private insurance(per your own words), yet you are screaming about the Health Care law. After all your ranting, and then that admission, I can only assume you are just *****ing for the sake of *****ing. Your getting free VA care...yet you still *****.
-------------------- It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious.
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posted
VA care isnot free Pagan. They have a cost/income/net value formula that i have had to use.
Oddly? I tried to get my insurer to pay the VA so that hte VA would be better funded and they refused. So now i go to a much more expensive doctor and they pay ten times what the VA was charging.... hilarious ain't it?
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: VA care isnot free Pagan. They have a cost/income/net value formula that i have had to use.
Oddly? I tried to get my insurer to pay the VA so that hte VA would be better funded and they refused. So now i go to a much more expensive doctor and they pay ten times what the VA was charging.... hilarious ain't it?
Well...you are wrong yet again glass. It all depends on your situation. For some it is free. And others, it's minimal cost.
-------------------- It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious.
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: it was not free to me, ever been "enrolled" since the early 80's.... maybe it's cuz i have some money
As I said Einstein...depends on the individuals situation. Guess you forgot to comprehend my post after reading it, and then posting something new. Definitely wouldn't be the first time...nor the last I'm sure
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2.700 pages for the "affordable health care act" or whatever you want to call it. 2700 pages....anyone want to tell me that this is absent of special interests, health care lobby interests, and all around pork? 1,440 pages in war and peace. This law doubles that.
If this law was so great, why are there so many waivers? Who got those waivers? Oh yes, of course, the labor unions. You see what is going on and how this works?
-------------------- It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so.
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quote:Originally posted by CashCowMoo: Glass I tried to get private insurance when I got out, but was denied and was given no reason, but I know why. So I know what you mean about private insurance and being refused for pre existing conditions.
So im saying why not cherry pick these problems and fix just those instead of screwing up the entire health care system?
Obama is big government.
Finally the truth comes out. You can't even get private insurance(per your own words), yet you are screaming about the Health Care law. After all your ranting, and then that admission, I can only assume you are just *****ing for the sake of *****ing. Your getting free VA care...yet you still *****.
You dont get what I am talking about, but thats fine. I am not against pre existing conditions, I am against a federal mandate to buy something or face penalty and a colonoscopy by the IRS. You seem to be ok with that which is highly disturbing.
-------------------- It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so.
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GOP Attorney General Suing Over Obamacare Supports Single-Payer: ‘I Trust The Government More’
By Scott Keyes on Mar 30, 2012 at 11:48 am
Louisiana Attorney General Buddy Caldwell (R) WASHINGTON, DC — According to one Republican attorney general in the lawsuit against the health care individual mandate, the problem with Obamacare is that it’s not a government takeover of health care.
ThinkProgress spoke with Louisiana Attorney General Buddy Caldwell outside the Supreme Court on Wednesday. Caldwell opposes Obamacare and the individual mandate, but for a different reason than most of his fellow litigants: it props up the private health insurance industry. “Insurance companies are the absolute worst people to handle this kind of business,” he declared. “I trust the government more than insurance companies.” Caldwell went on to endorse the idea of a single-payer health care system, saying it’d “be a whole lot better” than Obamacare:
KEYES: You don’t think the subsidies for low-income people are going to be helpful?
CALDWELL: No, no. The worst thing you can do is give it to an insurance company. I want to make my point. All insurance companies are controlled in their particular state. If you have a hurricane come up the east coast, the first one that’s going to leave you when they gotta pay too many claims is an insurance company. Insurance companies are the absolute worst people to handle this kind of business. I trust the government more than insurance companies. If the government wants to put forth a policy where they will pay for everything and you won’t have to go through an insurance policy, that’d be a whole lot better.
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quote:Originally posted by raybond: GOP Attorney General Suing Over Obamacare Supports Single-Payer: ‘I Trust The Government More’
By Scott Keyes on Mar 30, 2012 at 11:48 am
Louisiana Attorney General Buddy Caldwell (R) WASHINGTON, DC — According to one Republican attorney general in the lawsuit against the health care individual mandate, the problem with Obamacare is that it’s not a government takeover of health care.
ThinkProgress spoke with Louisiana Attorney General Buddy Caldwell outside the Supreme Court on Wednesday. Caldwell opposes Obamacare and the individual mandate, but for a different reason than most of his fellow litigants: it props up the private health insurance industry. “Insurance companies are the absolute worst people to handle this kind of business,” he declared. “I trust the government more than insurance companies.” Caldwell went on to endorse the idea of a single-payer health care system, saying it’d “be a whole lot better” than Obamacare:
KEYES: You don’t think the subsidies for low-income people are going to be helpful?
CALDWELL: No, no. The worst thing you can do is give it to an insurance company. I want to make my point. All insurance companies are controlled in their particular state. If you have a hurricane come up the east coast, the first one that’s going to leave you when they gotta pay too many claims is an insurance company. Insurance companies are the absolute worst people to handle this kind of business. I trust the government more than insurance companies. If the government wants to put forth a policy where they will pay for everything and you won’t have to go through an insurance policy, that’d be a whole lot better.
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