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Author Topic: MM's , just how smart are they/games they play?
paulbest
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Are the MM's our enemey? In the sense they hold down stocks that really should rise?
Do they know exactly whats going on with each company as far as news, potential, risk factor?

Also takea NG stock. Do they monitor the price of NG and adjst the market prioice of the stock based on the NG chart.

Also take the stock ETIM. Are they holding down the price so they can geta better position themselves before the rise in price? Are they holding down price to hopefully scare folks from loading up?

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Do not invest on any of my suggestions

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Lootcifer
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I do believe MMs receive News and press Releases about any given stock before ordinary investors do. Thats why most stocks already gap up within seconds after you see it on the newswires. They (MMs) get the news first. Which really sucks when you wanna make at least a 10% gain or more.

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Best Regards and Good Trading

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paulbest
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Yes i see what you mean.
Thanks, I'll make note of this.

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Do not invest on any of my suggestions

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beechwood
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The MM's main domain is pinks & the OTCBB,
(i.e.; penny stocks)
Those exchanges are virtually unregulated by
the SEC and easy prey to MM manipulation.
As such, the MM can artificially lower,
or raise, the pps of a penny stock at will
so as to load up and then sell.
They call this MM accumulation and it's a tactic used sparingly, at precise moments, so as not to
arouse suspicion by the SEC.
When you see those momentary "ghost spikes"
of price into the stratosphere the MM's are
usually behind it.
They last for a few minutes during which the
MM's are cashing in BIG and then it drops
back to it's previous level before the spike.
Also, MM's can trade at much lower pps than posted.
Basically, they have a liscence to steal.
That's why I mainly stick to the NYSE, AMEX,
and NASDAQ which the SEC watch like a hawk.

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paulbest
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beechwood, very interesting commentary.
So at peaks/heavy vol, the MM's are busy "at work". Trying to make sure they take home more money than the investors.
I'll keep what you say in mind, as it may help me make money in the future.
Thnaks

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Do not invest on any of my suggestions

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66inxs
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you may find out that the market makers use a computer program to rachet the price of stock up and down with very little human intervention. what else besides a computer could react to all of the changes to thousands of stocks every second. i would be very surprised if humans interacted with prices at all except to deal with oddball variences from the norm.

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I'm from Missouri - Show Me!

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paulbest
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quote:
Originally posted by 66inxs:
you may find out that the market makers use a computer program to rachet the price of stock up and down with very little human intervention. what else besides a computer could react to all of the changes to thousands of stocks every second. i would be very surprised if humans interacted with prices at all except to deal with oddball variences from the norm.

I know you think it seems IMPOSSIBLE that the MM's can be so manipulative, CONTROLING with micro pennies, but they are.
Read squires post on ETIM and beechwoods excellent comments above.
When a penny starts to ,ove up like with PYPR, there are 2 factors ivolved.
well 3 actually
1)the MM's have decided its time to let the stock go up
2) buying pressure makes them react, as they have lots and lots of cheap shares to sell ya, IOW the MM"S LOVE TO DEATH MONEY, they LOVE LOVE LOVE MONEY. Bottom line
But they will say, "hey Paul, go look in the mirror" "we only reflect your greed" which is an absolute lie. No one loves to make profits in stocks than the greedy MM's in pennies.
They cannot manipulate big stocks.

3) insiders/the co stops playing games and does not dilute and/or dump stock in the maket on each little rsie.

Its a complex interplay and the MM's know EXACTLY WHAT TO DO WHEN TO DO IT< HOW MUCH TO DO IN EACH AND EVERY PENNY STOCK


Now for this anaylsis I believe I deserve my 3rd star.
Not sure how the star systems works, who gives them,. but all I'm asking based on my growth in knowledge and understanding on an intuitively level, all self taught in the past 4 weeks. I honestly feel I should get my 3rd star.
How about it?

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Do not invest on any of my suggestions

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Squire38
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quote:
Originally posted by 66inxs:
you may find out that the market makers use a computer program to rachet the price of stock up and down with very little human intervention. what else besides a computer could react to all of the changes to thousands of stocks every second. i would be very surprised if humans interacted with prices at all except to deal with oddball variences from the norm.

How would MMs make money (they make tons, just DD NITE). Do they make money on the spread (hardly). To do that they would need to buy on the bid, and turn around and sell on the ask. To make money they need to move the market up and down. Do they use computers, damn straight. They normally do use a computer system, until it gets flagged with thing such as heavy volume, rapid price change, news, etc. Once they see interest in a stock they move it to make money. Pure and simple.

How can it be explained if a stock can out saying it is being bought for X amount of dollars, and everyone across every forum makes a made rush to buy? Buying pressure increased ten-fold, yet the PPS drops? Come on now, no way.

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Before you criticize someone, try walking a mile in their shoes, then when you do, you'll be a mile away and have their shoes.

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paulbest
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quote:
Originally posted by Squire38:
quote:
Originally posted by 66inxs:
you may find out that the market makers use a computer program to rachet the price of stock up and down with very little human intervention. what else besides a computer could react to all of the changes to thousands of stocks every second. i would be very surprised if humans interacted with prices at all except to deal with oddball variences from the norm.

How would MMs make money (they make tons, just DD NITE). Do they make money on the spread (hardly). To do that they would need to buy on the bid, and turn around and sell on the ask. To make money they need to move the market up and down. Do they use computers, damn straight. They normally do use a computer system, until it gets flagged with thing such as heavy volume, rapid price change, news, etc. Once they see interest in a stock they move it to make money. Pure and simple.

How can it be explained if a stock can out saying it is being bought for X amount of dollars, and everyone across every forum makes a made rush to buy? Buying pressure increased ten-fold, yet the PPS drops? Come on now, no way.

explain that last thought. Rephrase it, I think you are onto something.
The MM's are pros. They know exactly what they are doing and could care less about the investor. EVERYTHING THEY DO IS TO MANIPULATE THE PRICE OF THE PK's SO THEY CAM MAKE A NICE GREEDY PROFIT.
bottom line.

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Do not invest on any of my suggestions

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paulbest
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The MM's would say we are not near as greedy as you think. Look at your side, they say. Look at that powerful group, The Major Pennyland Investor Group. The Illumanatti, The Secret Society, putting in large sums of cash into one penny driving it up 300% in one day, then pulling out next day of few days later, causing it to crash.
Look at them, says the MM's.
The little investor is caught in the middle.
He gets crushed.
Still I think the MM's are the most greedy in this game. "oh so we should allow you to make money at our expense"
My answer. No you should make money, and we should make money. You, MM's want to make ALL the money, and leave us with the losses. This is what your GREED directs you to do.
The MM's are the most greedy people are planet earth. And I've met some greedy folk in my day.

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Do not invest on any of my suggestions

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beechwood
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ditto that
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beechwood
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There is an excellent book out called
"The Market Maker's Edge" by Josh Luken,
a former MM of many years.
It gives you a good deal of insight into
the mind of the MM.
It's in paperback and you can look it up on Amazon.com or get it at your local bookstore
for about $20.
Believe me when I say it's worth every penny.
In his book he explains all the tricks MM's
use to deceive people in the pink sheet
and OTCBB arenas.
Both of which are virtually ignored by the SEC.

Did you know that some members on the SEC enforcement team were once MM's themselves?
That may explain why they don't enforce the pinks
& BB as they probably have their hands in the
cookie jar as well.
The book is a must read if you're going to put money into pinks or BB stocks.
It'll open your eyes and level the playing field
at least to some degree.

Did you know that MM's have to pay $20,000
PER DAY! to cover their own admission fees
on the trading floor?
And that's before they put a single dime
into their own pockets.
You may have seen stocks on the pink sheets
as low as .0001 per share.
That's as low as you & I can trade these
before they de-list or do a reverse split.
Did you know that MM's can trade these in
four zeros (.00001, .00002, .00003, etc.)?
Hmmmmm.

As I said earlier, the MM is NOT your freind.
He will rob you blind if you let him.
They can raise or lower pps share at will
in pennyland regardless of volume in
either direction.
NEVER chase the price and DO NOT fall for
any of these "hot stock tips" you see all
over the investment web nowadays.
They are scams promoted by all manner of hucksters.

Personally, I have well into the six-figures
at work in the market at the present time.
Of that, I have barely 10% that are speculative.
Of that 10% most are in the OTCBB with maybe 3%
on double/triple zero Pink Sheet shell stocks.
The other 90% are on more solid ground in the
NYSE, AMEX, and NASDAQ where the MM's have
much less influence.
Beware of the MM in pennyland and always
do your own DD first!

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paulbest
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The book is on order. i saw it before but based on a few reviews I decided not to. I see it will be a good read.
but as I say i had an intuition of the character of these MM's. They are GREED INCARNATE.
And guess what,? They know they are.
with a grin [Big Grin]
But they will say, its the way the world is, we didn't make it like this.
So lets see, the world is full of evil greed, and all you are doing is keeping to the standard.
HA, The fools.
Little do they realize they children and grandchildren pay a heavy price. Their children are all kooky, and they don't care. This is a psychological law, and applies to the MM's.
They think "we are as unto gods".

The book will bear all this out, what I'm talking about.

--------------------
Do not invest on any of my suggestions

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66inxs
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thanks beechwood i will order it from barnes and noble this weekend. am always trying to learn.

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I'm from Missouri - Show Me!

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T e x
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quote:
Originally posted by paulbest:
Are the MM's our enemey? In the sense they hold down stocks that really should rise?
Do they know exactly whats going on with each company as far as news, potential, risk factor?

[ this is an excerpt... yes, I edited] --tex

1) Protect Capital

2) Don't fight MMs...

Foe? yes Friend? yes

Without them, in pennyland, you have no market in many/most issues; the incentive is they can trade for their respective houses.

What's not clear?

--------------------
Nashoba Holba Chepulechi
Adventures in microcapitalism...

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beechwood
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You can't fight the MM's.
Trying the same will only cost you money.
They have the house advantage by far.
Your best bet is learn their tune and
fall in with the rythym of the band.
Be advised that several paid pumpers/bashers
frequent these boards in order to generate
false volume and hype the stock.
There are actually offices full of people who do
this for a living (if you can call it that).
When you see a post as long as your arm you
have to ask yourself - who has that much free
time on their hands for such posts and why
would they bother?
Just remember that if something seems to good
to be true in pennyland it probably is.

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beechwood
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You can't fight the MM's.
Trying the same will only cost you money.
They have the house advantage by far.
Your best bet is learn their tune and
fall in with the rythym of the band.
Be advised that several paid pumpers/bashers
frequent these boards in order to generate
false volume and hype the stock.
There are actually offices full of people who do
this for a living (if you can call it that).
When you see a post as long as your arm you
have to ask yourself - who has that much free
time on their hands for such posts and why
would they bother?
Just remember that if something seems to good
to be true in pennyland it probably is.

Posts: 669 | From: Gouldsboro, Pa. | Registered: May 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
paulbest
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quote:
Originally posted by beechwood:
You can't fight the MM's.
Trying the same will only cost you money.
They have the house advantage by far.
Your best bet is learn their tune and
fall in with the rythym of the band.
Be advised that several paid pumpers/bashers
frequent these boards in order to generate
false volume and hype the stock.
There are actually offices full of people who do
this for a living (if you can call it that).
When you see a post as long as your arm you
have to ask yourself - who has that much free
time on their hands for such posts and why
would they bother?
Just remember that if something seems to good
to be true in pennyland it probably is.

Indeed.
I hear what Tex is saying.
When I get the book in, I'll have more to stand on my opinion.
The MM's are much less a friend, and more like our combantant.
To me they are might be something like Al Qaeda.

Now I know there are pumpers here. I'm learning what threads to avoid, even if the stock goes To Da Mooooonnn, and which to pay close attention to.

This forum is like penny stocks, thousands out there, but only some posts are worth reading.
Study carefully the good traders here, ignore the rest.
Oh yeah, ignore me as I'm only a greenie.

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Do not invest on any of my suggestions

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T e x
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"I hear what Tex is saying."

lol...

You ain't convinced me...

Ya--read the book

--------------------
Nashoba Holba Chepulechi
Adventures in microcapitalism...

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